Current Affairs EU In or Out

[peteblue]

Inside of the EU or out we would still be drawn into that conflict. Can't exactly let the Red Army establish a base camp 20 odd miles from our country.

I have no problem if it is part of NATO which is a pure military alliance. I want no part of an EU army which is a Political and military alliance.....

 

[peteblue]

My opinion is that to be honest , the Russians are nasty so we shouldn’t wind them up in case they kick off is not a mindset I’m hugely onboard with personally.

Im not completely convinced on the eu army or whether it’s a realistic prospect whatever macron says but I do believe in people being stronger together particularly when we have an isolationist US President who doesn’t seem wholly personally committed to the principles of NATO.

There is a difference between standing up to people, which we should, and deliberately going out of our way and poking them in the eye. The EU has a tendency to bully, probably because it’s politicians like Juncker had previously managed non entity countries and now think they are masters of the universe......

 

[Harryflashman]

There is a difference between standing up to people, which we should, and deliberately going out of our way and poking them in the eye. The EU has a tendency to bully, probably because it’s politicians like Juncker had previously managed non entity countries and now think they are masters of the universe......

Do you think the EU have poked Russia in the eye ? They certainly stood four square behind us after Salisbury , the US did an exceptional job as well but all reports including from sympathetic media suggest that was more by the insistence of those that surround them than the man himself . This quote seemed illuminating

“Mr Trump insisted that the poisoning was largely a European problem, according to The Washington Post.”

 

[peteblue]

Pete, have you ever stopped to think that countries like Estonia want to be in the EU precisely because of their history of being subjugated to the Soviet Union? You make it sound like the EU are an evil empire swallowing up territories.

As opposed to Russia being an evil empire swallowing up countries. The U.K. used to do the same, very effectively as I recall, but we gave up our empire, relatively peacefully, and it became a Commonwealth. The EU is now empire building but doing so politically, financially and militarily and the jumped up politicians are loving it.......

 

[Harryflashman]

As opposed to Russia being an evil empire swallowing up countries. The U.K. used to do the same, very effectively as I recall, but we gave up our empire, relatively peacefully, and it became a Commonwealth. The EU is now empire building but doing so politically, financially and militarily and the jumped up politicians are loving it.......

The U.K. or rather the British Empire also used to trade in slaves , execute trade unionists in the street , press gang people and the rest but that’s called progress all of those things now would be rightly condemned as is Russian expansionism.

 

[The binman chronicles]

I have no problem if it is part of NATO which is a pure military alliance. I want no part of an EU army which is a Political and military alliance.....

I don't particularly disagree with what you are saying but I would point out that even NATO/UN is political in its nature and if there was an EU army all nations would have to approve its use (well at least the main ones). So it's not like they could have sent in the troops without our say, however once we are outside looking in we won't and therefore they could bring trouble to our doorstep.

 

[Harryflashman]

Just listening to a discussion on the potential of an EU army and obviously it’s fascinating that when we were members our veto would it seem have prevented its formation. so now we’ve left it’s obviously more likely, to whatever extent, but Brexiteers say we should leave as they want to form an eu army and then we leave and presumably making an army more likely potentially making it a self fulfilling prophecy.

 

[peteblue]

Do you think the EU have poked Russia in the eye ? They certainly stood four square behind us after Salisbury , the US did an exceptional job as well but all reports including from sympathetic media suggest that was more by the insistence of those that surround them than the man himself . This quote seemed illuminating

“Mr Trump insisted that the poisoning was largely a European problem, according to The Washington Post.”

Yes I do. The EU kept pushing Ukraine back in 2013 for their President to sign various political and economic accords with the EU. When he refused all hell broke loose in Ukraine and he ran to Russia. Now remember that the Crimean peninsula was and remains Russia’s major naval port, so they had little option but to take it over, under whatever pretence, and I agree with them tbh. The involvement of the EU, especially France and Germany who decided to take the lead in negotiations, merely made it worse. So yes, I do believe that the EU poked Russia in the eye.....

The EU had no option but to stand behind the U.K. in respect of the Salisbury case because the facts dictated it. Even Trump, who was very reticent to upset the Russians eventually had to join in.

 

[peteblue]

Just listening to a discussion on the potential of an EU army and obviously it’s fascinating that when we were members our veto would it seem have prevented its formation. so now we’ve left it’s obviously more likely, to whatever extent, but Brexiteers say we should leave as they want to form an eu army and then we leave and presumably making an army more likely potentially making it a self fulfilling prophecy.

Unfortunately that is true. But as the EU is now going to move to majority vote, something they always denied, our veto would not have lasted long and our treacherous politicians and civil servants would have tied us ever closer......

 

[Harryflashman]

Unfortunately that is true. But as the EU is now going to move to majority vote, something they always denied, our veto would not have lasted long and our treacherous politicians and civil servants would have tied us ever closer......

Not a question I know the answer to , but I can’t think of an occasion , was our veto ever overriden ?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Indeed Bruce, I totally agree. Except that there are now two bullies, Russia and the EU.....

You'd think the chorus of disapproval from countries who actually lived behind the iron curtain at Hunt's comments would have discouraged such remarks, but apparently not.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

As opposed to Russia being an evil empire swallowing up countries. The U.K. used to do the same, very effectively as I recall, but we gave up our empire, relatively peacefully, and it became a Commonwealth. The EU is now empire building but doing so politically, financially and militarily and the jumped up politicians are loving it.......

Where you see an empire, most right minded people see an alliance that is no different to Nato or its ilk. All this talk of empire is silly, and I suspect people in India would laugh at your notion that it was given up peacefully. Or are we brushing over the 2 million deaths as peaceful now?

 

[peteblue]

I don't particularly disagree with what you are saying but I would point out that even NATO/UN is political in its nature and if there was an EU army all nations would have to approve its use (well at least the main ones). So it's not like they could have sent in the troops without our say, however once we are outside looking in we won't and therefore they could bring trouble to our doorstep.

Do you seriously believe that the EU army would not be used if Luxembourg or the ROI objected. Do you think it would require 28 to agree, 25, 20, 25, 15 or 10, perhaps 5 ? So who will control it ? Defence is easy, if attacked everyone defends, or do they ? NATO works because the USA, UK, France have well defined forces, under the control of the bigger nations. Who would control the EU army, France ? or maybe Germany ?, what about Spain or even Luxembourg. If you trust any of those to order our armed forces into engagement then I’m sorry but I don’t.....

 

[Joey66]

Inside of the EU or out we would still be drawn into that conflict. Can't exactly let the Red Army establish a base camp 20 odd miles from our country.

At least if we leave we will not fund an EU army -dont forget remainers in the polictical world laughed at Farage when he stated this was going to happen down the line......- Clegg and co were adamant it was not on...... bare faced lies.......
So when we leave we will not face a massive bill to fund a mickey mouse bureaucratic army mainly run by the French as other countries are sadly lacking in armies - Makron in France is struggling politically the french hate him........
We have nato so the EU want to go it alone -Bye bye

 

[edge]

If they're going to bully countries, I don't think it's right that we side with the bully.

If a bully is threatened they will to revert to form and strike out.
Sooner talk to the Russians than wind them up , because it suits someone in Brussels to expand there infulence, for what , will any of these countries make the EU more prosperous , safer for the average EU citizen?
Anyway the Russians have the masters of the EU, Germany by the bollocks over energy so I wouldn't be looking at anything other than sabre rattling when it came to it anyway.
I have said repeatedly I would withdraw from nato , UN and just have an armed forces for home defense , we are for ever getting told we are not a world power anymore let's not act like one and let others sort themselves out without are input.