Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Joey66]

Kinell, don't you start with the obtuse Indian stuff, my favourite curry house has Asian staff and owners and their saag aloo is ace.
Make it coffee and I'm in-oh, wait a minute...

you started it though.........

 

[Number_25]

Yes Thatcher sold the family silver and following prime ministers continued her tactics leaving us without any big industries - I agree with you there - the Eu imo is stopping us redeveloping we dont make cars we just assemble them, if those parts could be engineered here then think of the proper jobs that could be created....
it would take years, but you have to start somehow - being in the EU stops that and other initiatives imo.....

I believe that you're well intended, but I also believe that you're wrong.

The issue we have is that during our (what some would refer to as) "heyday" we relied on colonialism as a means of wealth creation. Our country, although green, has little in terms of resources that can be exploited and sold.

As you are well aware, our diminished status in areas like education and manufacturing has resulted in us relying on a false services-based economy that is both unmanageable and unsustainable.

However, the reality is that little can be achieved without mass inward investment.

After 40 years of neo-liberal policies we are now well aware that this investment is unlikely to come from capitalistic externialities - yet without said wealth we can't achieve anything that will face up to the issues I noted earlier.

I accept that, despite my best effort, the referendum went the way of a leave vote - and so we must respect that and leave the European Union.

You must also accept that, despite your victory, the referendum was extremely close and as such a large proportion of the population - whilst respecting the result - also wants to see a pragmatic implementation of it.

 

[tsubaki]

The last red line has been breached:

Businesses should be able to move “their talented people” from the UK to the European Union – and vice versa – after Brexit, according to the government’s much anticipated strategy white paper.

The document, published on Thursday, also says the government is prepared to allow EU citizens to travel freely without a visa in the UK for tourism and temporary work and allow EU students to study in the UK.

Although the white paper is emphatic that there will be an end to the free movement of people at the end of the transition period in December 2020, the document says it will be necessary to recognise the “depth of the relationship and close ties between the peoples of the UK and the EU”.

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ree-movement-for-skilled-workers-and-students

 

[orchard]

The last red line has been breached:



https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ree-movement-for-skilled-workers-and-students

Colour me surprised.

Whilst you're here, do you happen to know how many unwritten parliamentary codes May's broken please?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Colour me surprised.

Whilst you're here, do you happen to know how many unwritten parliamentary codes May's broken please?

Where is the document published? It's not on the Gov.uk Brexit page.

 

[tsubaki]

Where is the document published? It's not on the Gov.uk Brexit page.

it is a leaked version of the white paper, due to be published (IIRC) today at some point

edit: its just literally been released about 15 minutes ago -

 

[tsubaki]

apparently the sitting in the Commons has been suspended as they werent given sight of the white paper that they were about to debate

this is going to go absolutely wrong for the PM

 

[orchard]

Where is the document published? It's not on the Gov.uk Brexit page.

It's not out yet AFAIK, released early to the press before parliament(hence my question). There's the Con-home idiots propaganda I posted yesterday, the slow release of Dd's efforts, and a few bits coming from the media.

 

[orchard]

apparently the sitting in the Commons has been suspended as they werent given sight of the white paper that they were about to debate

this is going to go absolutely wrong for the PM

Intentional again, they won't get to comment on it after this juncture either, absolute joke.

 

[tsubaki]

Intentional again, they won't get to comment on it after this juncture either, absolute joke.

Kier Starmer claims (and I have no reason to doubt him) that journalists got the White Paper at 9am, Labour at 11.45 am and didn't get the text of the statement until after the end of Business Questions (ie: just before Raab got up to speak). MPs didn't get it at all, hence the suspension.

 

[nsno-chris]

This is very poor, i've skimmed through a couple of chapters. I'd very surprised if EU agree to this.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...een-the-united-kingdom-and-the-european-union

 

[tsubaki]

This is very poor, i've skimmed through a couple of chapters. I'd very surprised if EU agree to this.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...een-the-united-kingdom-and-the-european-union

TBH a brief skim-read of it makes me think its aimed more at the anti-Corbyn Labour rebels (Woodcock, Gapes, Umunna etc) than anyone else; with the idea that their numbers cancel out the likely ERG rebels and get it through the Commons.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

TBH a brief skim-read of it makes me think its aimed more at the anti-Corbyn Labour rebels (Woodcock, Gapes, Umunna etc) than anyone else; with the idea that their numbers cancel out the likely ERG rebels and get it through the Commons.

A lot of it does nonetheless underline the stupidity of the whole thing, as in a number of areas of 'rule making' we will continue to work with EU bodies on creating shared rules (just as we would as members), simply because to do otherwise would be bonkers.

 

[nsno-chris]

TBH a brief skim-read of it makes me think its aimed more at the anti-Corbyn Labour rebels (Woodcock, Gapes, Umunna etc) than anyone else; with the idea that their numbers cancel out the likely ERG rebels and get it through the Commons.

It'll probably pass through the Commons, it seems a far to good of a deal for UK. I can't see the EU accpecting it, if you look at Point 12:
a). The UK’s proposal for a free trade area includes: a. the phased introduction of a new Facilitated Customs Arrangement that would remove the need for customs checks and controls between the UK and the EU as if in a combined customs territory, while enabling the UK to control tariffs for its own trade with the rest of the world and ensure businesses pay the right tariff;
b). the elimination of tariffs, quotas and routine requirements for rules of origin for goods traded between the UK and the EU;
c). a common rulebook for manufactured goods, alongside UK participation in EU agencies that facilitate goods being placed on the EU market;
d). a common rulebook for agriculture, food and fisheries products, encompassing rules that must be checked at the border, alongside equivalence for certain other rules, such as wider food policy; and
e). robust domestic market surveillance and cooperation between the UK and the EU to ensure the rules are upheld in both markets.

Points A & B will not pass with the EU, i can see that be negotiated out. The UK government know they do not have the infrastructure to deal with EU goods, there is far too many weak points in our borders which will be open to the ability to commit customs fraud at the bports

 

[orchard]

A lot of it does nonetheless underline the stupidity of the whole thing, as in a number of areas of 'rule making' we will continue to work with EU bodies on creating shared rules (just as we would as members), simply because to do otherwise would be bonkers.

Notably excepting food labelling, and GI's.

's anyone?