Current Affairs EU In or Out

In or Out

  • In

    Votes: 688 67.9%
  • Out

    Votes: 325 32.1%

  • Total voters
    1,013
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Then surely you must be happy......

As I mention in one of the other threads, whilst I do think our society is significantly better and healthier inside the EU than outside, there are significant challenges facing large parts of the country. There's been no progress made domestically on those challenges since the vote, and there's a strong sense that the government have put all their eggs in the 'blame the EU' basket. Public trust in institutions is already low enough, and it concerns me what might happen when that trust is abused once more. As we've seen in the clip from the weekend, people like Tommy Robinson are preying on the angst and anger many people have, and that's a road I doubt anyone here wants the country to go down.
 
I love the way opponents are up in arms over the draft agreement. That stupid woman in Scotland is saying that Scottish fishermen have been betrayed because we don’t really leave until December 2020, while she herself wants to remain in the EU anyway....and they say comedy is dead......
Is it not a draft agreement to move forwards in negotiations?
The implementation agreement is 6 months shorter too!
 
Personally think that it’ll end up in some sort of fudged agreement where neither people who voted to leave or remain are particularly happy with the end result, and the arguments shall continue for years.

It has opened the door on a hugely divided country, whether in turns of town/country, graduates/non-graduates, old/young or what have you. I'd love to think we could stop all the hyperbolic twaddle and be honest with each other, but I'm not at all confident that will happen.
 
As I mention in one of the other threads, whilst I do think our society is significantly better and healthier inside the EU than outside, there are significant challenges facing large parts of the country. There's been no progress made domestically on those challenges since the vote, and there's a strong sense that the government have put all their eggs in the 'blame the EU' basket. Public trust in institutions is already low enough, and it concerns me what might happen when that trust is abused once more. As we've seen in the clip from the weekend, people like Tommy Robinson are preying on the angst and anger many people have, and that's a road I doubt anyone here wants the country to go down.

Im not really sure why you believe our society is significantly better and healthier inside the EU. What do you base this on ?...I agree that there has been an easy get out of jail free card for our politicians, who could just blame the EU, but that will be removed when we finally leave and they will be accountable to the electorate for their own actions or lack of......the Tommy Robinson’s of this world are just cretins, and we’ve always had those and probably always will....
 
It has opened the door on a hugely divided country, whether in turns of town/country, graduates/non-graduates, old/young or what have you. I'd love to think we could stop all the hyperbolic twaddle and be honest with each other, but I'm not at all confident that will happen.

Then just accept the result of the vote that we took and get behind the U.K. ........
 
Personally think that it’ll end up in some sort of fudged agreement where neither people who voted to leave or remain are particularly happy with the end result, and the arguments shall continue for years.

No one will get everything they wanted, neither Leavers nor remainers, UK nor EU. But as long as we leave the control of the EU and do a sensible deal for the future, most will be happy.....
 
Im not really sure why you believe our society is significantly better and healthier inside the EU. What do you base this on ?...I agree that there has been an easy get out of jail free card for our politicians, who could just blame the EU, but that will be removed when we finally leave and they will be accountable to the electorate for their own actions or lack of......the Tommy Robinson’s of this world are just cretins, and we’ve always had those and probably always will....

I base it on what I see around me, both personally and professionally. I think our exposure to and cooperation with those in Europe has benefited the UK enormously. Globalisation has benefited the world enormously, and it would be criminal if we tossed that away.

Regarding your accountability thing Pete, I don't buy it. If you look at who voted to leave, it was predominantly those who had not benefited from globalisation. Folk in post-industrial towns whose livelihoods had gone, whether through the shift to a service based economy, moving low-skilled manufacturing overseas, technological displacement or all of the above. They've seen the communities they were used to wither away, and in many places, an immigrant culture form in its place.

If you believe this basic narrative, there is nothing the government has done since the vote to make the lot of such people any better at all. Before the vote, there was a mass of hyperbole about Europe needing us more than we need them, how trading with the world would be a doddle, how the Commonwealth would flock around her majesty and an Anglophile world would emerge. That hasn't happened, and instead the reality has shone through the rhetoric, such that the 'trading with the world' and 'taking back control' slogans were exposed for the meaningless soundbites they are just last week by parliament.

May spoke after the vote about re-crafting the economy to better support those towns that had been left behind, but the reality is that bugger all has been done, either intellectually or practically to make that happen. The Tories may well be accountable, but they're the only party that wanted us to leave, so if you hold them to account and vote them out, who else do you go to? Do you say "yeah, this isn't working out, lets go back in..." or do you double down and vote for an 'ultra-Tory'/UKIP style party that says the strategy was great but we didn't do it hard enough?

Then just accept the result of the vote that we took and get behind the U.K. ........

With respect Pete, this whole 'not getting behind the UK' thing is daft. Do you think remain voters go into work in the morning and put in 50% effort, just to show them leavers? I'd say that's unlikely, and the very suggestion that we have a 'treasonous' half of the country who are the reason we're not sticking it to Johnny Foreigner is buck passing from those who should know better. You said people would be held to account, but I'm afraid all evidence to date suggests that Johnson, Gove et al will look anywhere for blame except themselves.
 
I base it on what I see around me, both personally and professionally. I think our exposure to and cooperation with those in Europe has benefited the UK enormously. Globalisation has benefited the world enormously, and it would be criminal if we tossed that away.

Regarding your accountability thing Pete, I don't buy it. If you look at who voted to leave, it was predominantly those who had not benefited from globalisation. Folk in post-industrial towns whose livelihoods had gone, whether through the shift to a service based economy, moving low-skilled manufacturing overseas, technological displacement or all of the above. They've seen the communities they were used to wither away, and in many places, an immigrant culture form in its place.

If you believe this basic narrative, there is nothing the government has done since the vote to make the lot of such people any better at all. Before the vote, there was a mass of hyperbole about Europe needing us more than we need them, how trading with the world would be a doddle, how the Commonwealth would flock around her majesty and an Anglophile world would emerge. That hasn't happened, and instead the reality has shone through the rhetoric, such that the 'trading with the world' and 'taking back control' slogans were exposed for the meaningless soundbites they are just last week by parliament.

May spoke after the vote about re-crafting the economy to better support those towns that had been left behind, but the reality is that bugger all has been done, either intellectually or practically to make that happen. The Tories may well be accountable, but they're the only party that wanted us to leave, so if you hold them to account and vote them out, who else do you go to? Do you say "yeah, this isn't working out, lets go back in..." or do you double down and vote for an 'ultra-Tory'/UKIP style party that says the strategy was great but we didn't do it hard enough?



With respect Pete, this whole 'not getting behind the UK' thing is daft. Do you think remain voters go into work in the morning and put in 50% effort, just to show them leavers? I'd say that's unlikely, and the very suggestion that we have a 'treasonous' half of the country who are the reason we're not sticking it to Johnny Foreigner is buck passing from those who should know better. You said people would be held to account, but I'm afraid all evidence to date suggests that Johnson, Gove et al will look anywhere for blame except themselves.

I’m sorry Bruce but I just don’t see it that way. In terms of trading with the world, we are barely 18months from our voting to leave, by treaty we cannot do any deals until 2019 when we will be able to negotiate and sign deals but not enact them until January 2021. The people you refer to as not having gained through Globalisation are indeed not in service or financial industries (London has cornered the market in those), but manufacturing is already picking up and will do so further. They will also benefit from lower cost produce from around the world which are currently excluded via tariffs.

It’s very early days, leaving the EU is not an insignificant piece of work, but it will be accomplished. We are moving along nicely, we have a proper timescale agreed and tbh I think it’s going quite well considering it’s complexity and the political obstruction from certain people. Like it or not, it looks as though May will deliver on her promise to uphold the vote and leave the EU......
 
Is it not a draft agreement to move forwards in negotiations?
The implementation agreement is 6 months shorter too!

I have said all along that the Irish border issue will stop Brexit. Today's draft paper just illustrates that issue. The backstop position of a single market for Northern Ireland is something that Theresa May has already said isn't acceptable - so how on earth can it still be in the document today?
 
I have said all along that the Irish border issue will stop Brexit. Today's draft paper just illustrates that issue. The backstop position of a single market for Northern Ireland is something that Theresa May has already said isn't acceptable - so how on earth can it still be in the document today?

The Irish border will not stop Brexit. As much as you may like to think it will, it won’t happen.......
 
Hooray, unsurprisingly May and her cohorts gave the EU everything they wanted and us remainers too, we are more or less guaranteed now to be in the EU in all but name, just as I thought Brexit dying by concession after concession and the EU hasn’t given in on anything.
 
I have said all along that the Irish border issue will stop Brexit. Today's draft paper just illustrates that issue. The backstop position of a single market for Northern Ireland is something that Theresa May has already said isn't acceptable - so how on earth can it still be in the document today?
Your the pessimistic character with crab apple face a Bing Crosby songlol
 
Hooray, unsurprisingly May and her cohorts gave the EU everything they wanted and us remainers too, we are more or less guaranteed now to be in the EU in all but name, just as I thought Brexit dying by concession after concession and the EU hasn’t given in on anything.

Excellent, you have won, you must be happy. I’m pleased that you are happy that the EU hasn’t given in on anything......we are still leaving though.....
 
I’m sorry Bruce but I just don’t see it that way. In terms of trading with the world, we are barely 18months from our voting to leave, by treaty we cannot do any deals until 2019 when we will be able to negotiate and sign deals but not enact them until January 2021. The people you refer to as not having gained through Globalisation are indeed not in service or financial industries (London has cornered the market in those), but manufacturing is already picking up and will do so further. They will also benefit from lower cost produce from around the world which are currently excluded via tariffs.

It’s very early days, leaving the EU is not an insignificant piece of work, but it will be accomplished. We are moving along nicely, we have a proper timescale agreed and tbh I think it’s going quite well considering it’s complexity and the political obstruction from certain people. Like it or not, it looks as though May will deliver on her promise to uphold the vote and leave the EU......

Manufacturing may well do okay but it'll be high skilled manufacturing. Look at the industrial strategy there's nothing there for low skilled people, most of whom elected to leave.
 
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