Current Affairs EU In or Out

[tsubaki]

Negotiations can go well between two willing partners, but as you say the EU is not willing. Negotiations can also go well between two parties that need a deal, unfortunately the EU, as opposed to the individual countries, aren’t that bothered and tbh I think more in the U.K. are coming around to the fact that WTO is an acceptable answer. This is still a journey where positions can and probably will change. While outwardly the EU appear to have a single view, the U.K. government has no end of people, Corbyn, SNP, the Lords, who will do and say anything to undermine our negotiating position. Corbyn’s latest pronouncements will only embolden the EU to take as hard a position as possible and force us to the hardest of Brexit positions. There are too many people playing politics when we should be trying to get the best of deals for both the U.K. and the EU..........

Pete, this is an argument that fails the moment one realises that the UK has had no defined position during these talks; that is why that conversation between Merkel and May where the German leader asked what May wanted was so revealing. In fact they are still debating furiously between themselves about what sort of Brexit they want, which is absolutely unforgiveable eighteen months in to - and falling back on WTO rules isn't a negotiating position, its the absence of a negotiating position. That the usual papers are raising it as a reasonable prospect causing the usual fools to "come around to the fact that WTO is an acceptable answer" does not make it one. It is a bad idea made worse by the fact that we would be relying on this Government to negotiate vital trade deals.

And then what ?......

... and then we would get some people in who actually have done something positive, and not the serried ranks of failure as we currently have. Whatever you think of Corbyn, he has made a clearer and more concrete statement about what relationship he wants with the EU than May ever has.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

And yet you know it’s going better than expected because Project fear 1 didn’t materialise and life continued. You must at least accept that........

I don't accept that I'm afraid (and am sure we've been over this numerous times in this thread before)

 

[Charlie Sweet]

Soubry will push it, but will fall into line if there is a confidence vote. She may well believe that the U.K. is better in the EU, but there is no way she could be convinced that Jeremy Corbyn should be PM.......

The DUP will pull away from propping up the government in any case to force a general election in my opinion. Soubry and the others will end up in a pro-Europe Tory splinter party.

and tbh I think more in the U.K. are coming around to the fact that WTO is an acceptable answer. This is still a journey where positions can and probably will change. ....

But there's no suggestion or evidence to say this? Even the pro-hard Brexit figures that contrasted with the government's own independent stats made a huge assumption that the EU would bend over on a negotiated trade agreement.

In any case working on a WTO basis would require the UK to enforce a hard border with the Republic. That's just not going to happen.

 

[neil999]

Still dont understand why these pro euro tories and centrist labour mps dont just join the lib dems...surely it couldnt be because they have more hope of being in government being in one of the two big parties? surely not...

 

[tsubaki]

Still dont understand why these pro euro tories and centrist labour mps dont just join the lib dems...surely it couldnt be because they have more hope of being in government being in one of the two big parties? surely not...

The pro Euro Tories because they want to take their party back from the cretinry, the centrist Labour MPs because they know they'd be out of a job as soon as people saw that the word "Labour" no longer appeared next to their name on a ballot paper.

 

[Joey66]

Soubry said she would honour the referendum vote and give her backing to triggering Article 50. She also said she would push for a full customs union and membership of the single market.

She has been entirely true to her word and her voters backed her in the recent general election. But somehow you know better?

As for making such comments on the basis of her voice - really? There are many of us who find the likes of Gove, Boris, Rees Mogg, Hoey and Angela Ledstrom - not to mention Farage and Galloway - utterly repulsive in every shape and form but it hardly constitutes a reasoned debate does it?

You don't debate you just repeat retric!
Voting article 50 through then putting an amendment down that could defeat he own government is a MP who knows her days policticaly numbered she is stabbing her PM in the front - urm just like the Labour Party last year gave Corbyn a vote of no confidence- my how times change - by the way Corbyns a customs union does not solve the Irish problem - yet more electioneering smokes and mirrors from his speech yesterday!

 

[tsubaki]

You don't debate you just repeat retric!
Voting article 50 through then putting an amendment down that could defeat he own government is a MP who knows her days policticaly numbered she is stabbing her PM in the front - urm just like the Labour Party last year gave Corbyn a vote of no confidence- my how times change - by the way Corbyns a customs union does not solve the Irish problem - yet more electioneering smokes and mirrors from his speech yesterday!

A customs union and negotiated regulatory alignment (which is what he called for) goes most of the way to solving the Irish problem, the only thing that remains is freedom of movement and its long beyond time that they are treated the same as other EU member states.

As for Soubry, she has always hated May - here is her interview on General Election night (that Laura Kuenssberg laughably described as "a code for May to step down")

 

[peteblue]

I don't accept that I'm afraid (and am sure we've been over this numerous times in this thread before)

So are you saying that the project fear forecasts actually materialised ........

 

[peteblue]

Pete, this is an argument that fails the moment one realises that the UK has had no defined position during these talks; that is why that conversation between Merkel and May where the German leader asked what May wanted was so revealing. In fact they are still debating furiously between themselves about what sort of Brexit they want, which is absolutely unforgiveable eighteen months in to - and falling back on WTO rules isn't a negotiating position, its the absence of a negotiating position. That the usual papers are raising it as a reasonable prospect causing the usual fools to "come around to the fact that WTO is an acceptable answer" does not make it one. It is a bad idea made worse by the fact that we would be relying on this Government to negotiate vital trade deals.



... and then we would get some people in who actually have done something positive, and not the serried ranks of failure as we currently have. Whatever you think of Corbyn, he has made a clearer and more concrete statement about what relationship he wants with the EU than May ever has.

Hahahahaha......I’m sorry but even Labour cannot explain Corbyn’s position. Perhaps you could explain it.....

 

[peteblue]

“Guy Verhofstadt declared on Tuesday the European Parliament would fight to ensure that Northern Ireland remains subject to EU law after Brexit and heaped yet more pressure on Mrs May in a crunch week for the Prime Minister.

British MEPs accused the parliament’s Brexit coordinator of "intolerable interference" in UK affairs and of trying to topple Theresa May’s government.”

And there we have it. The EU are using NI as the excuse to keep us all under their control.......

 

[Joey66]

A customs union and negotiated regulatory alignment (which is what he called for) goes most of the way to solving the Irish problem, the only thing that remains is freedom of movement and its long beyond time that they are treated the same as other EU member states.

As for Soubry, she has always hated May - here is her interview on General Election night (that Laura Kuenssberg laughably described as "a code for May to step down")

DP BBC2 just now differs on your theory!
Also thst not the interview I seen and the red mark over her mouth will stay there imo as she spouts bile against her own constituency vote which was out!

 

[tsubaki]

Hahahahaha......I’m sorry but even Labour cannot explain Corbyn’s position. Perhaps you could explain it.....

It is quite simple:

we leave the EU
we sign a deal with the EU where there is a customs union, have shared standards and regulations in some areas

 

[Joey66]

“Guy Verhofstadt declared on Tuesday the European Parliament would fight to ensure that Northern Ireland remains subject to EU law after Brexit and heaped yet more pressure on Mrs May in a crunch week for the Prime Minister.

British MEPs accused the parliament’s Brexit coordinator of "intolerable interference" in UK affairs and of trying to topple Theresa May’s government.”

And there we have it. The EU are using NI as the excuse to keep us all under their control.......

Yes they did not bother or get involved with the Goood Friday agreement....
Now it's a buggy got them as it suits there division and rule powers!

 

[tsubaki]

DP BBC2 just now differs on your theory!
Also thst not the interview I seen and the red mark over her mouth will stay there imo as she spouts bile against her own constituency vote which was out!

what that person from the IOD said was, to paraphase "a customs union doesn't solve the Irish question but it is a big part of it"

 

[peteblue]

what that person from the IOD said was, to paraphase "a customs union doesn't solve the Irish question but it is a big part of it"

Or if we have a free trade agreement with the EU that would solve the Irish question. Again, the trading relationship needs to be agreed before the border issue can be addressed........