Current Affairs EU In or Out

[peteblue]

I don't see how a super majority is unworkable. Here in the states it takes a 60% or better vote to get a law enacted. Something as 'permanent' as this vote was should have required the same.

You go back to 1975 and the vote was a clear super majority. 67% to 33%. If you make something permanent that is divided right down the middle it will only keep people divided.

This is why you still have hundreds of millions of guns on your streets.......

 

[peteblue]

Noone can disregard the result just let democracy decide, can't hold people hostage to a singular vote for ever more or else it looks like Mussolini et al. However, Brexit has only got itself to blame. Factor in the small majority and far from convincing proceedings since June 23 2016, which by the way is well over 600 days now. Brexit has had plenty of time to put something together to convince remainers of the positives about Brexit. Instead all everyone gets is divisions in what Brexit should be. An Utter failure..

It’s all about you remainers isn’t it. The Leavers have to convince you, but you also know that nothing ever will, because we are just uneducated, old and racist....

 

[Bruce Wayne]

It’s all about you remainers isn’t it. The Leavers have to convince you, but you also know that nothing ever will, because we are just uneducated, old and racist....

Now you've convinced me Pete

 

[peteblue]

Now you've convinced me Pete

I knew I would eventually......

 

[Charlie Sweet]

I believe in democrocy what ever is decided, and we leave the EU on favourable terms so be it we need to leave then democracy has won!

The question Joey. Focus on the question please!

If the deal terms David Davis comes back with - and puts to parliament - are , for example, - we continue to pay the same amount each year to the EU for access to the single market, but get no say in votes and cannot stop immigration - would you want parliament to ratify? And we sign up to that forever? So technically we're out of the EU but in reality we're paying the same amount to them each year and we cannot control our borders?

 

[Joey66]

The question Joey. Focus on the question please!

If the deal terms David Davis comes back with - and puts to parliament - are , for example, - we continue to pay the same amount each year to the EU for access to the single market, but get no say in votes and cannot stop immigration - would you want parliament to ratify? And we sign up to that forever? So technically we're out of the EU but in reality we're paying the same amount to them each year and we cannot control our borders?

I will accept the vote of paliament- it's not about hypothetical questions on the results of complicated negotiations, as long as we leave , and the. Democratic vote of the UK is carried forward positively by Parliment! End of - no second vote of the people - we voted to leave let the democratic vote win!

 

[Old Blue 2]

It's funny that you talk about Mussolini ect and yet it is you who show the breathtaking disregard for democracy that monsters such as him took for granted as though it's mearly a tool to be used and not somthing incredibly important to any supposedly civilized nation. Nobody has suggested that there shouldn't ever be another vote on the matter. Many of us (including many remainers who aren't as contemptuous of democracy), just feel we should at least forfill the first referndum before we go about perusing a second one. Holding election or referendums repeatedly till you get the desired result is not democracy at all, it is a twisted mockery of democracy.

Then you make an extremely odd comment suggesting that "Brexit has only got itself to blame". How exactly can Brexit in itself be to blame for anything? It's not a person or an object, it's not a thing. If you mean the government handling of Brexit or the people who voted for it well that is an entirety diffrent thing and you can make your arguments accordingly. As for the idea that the government should of convinced remainers that Brexit would be a good thing, well yes I somewhat agree they should attempted more effectively at least but in reality the vast majority of remainers had no intention of ever changing their mind on the issue regardless of how our leaving went even if it had been smooth saling. As far as creating devisions in the country goes, well how exactly would ignoring the majority's vote actually help fix devisions?!

Two salient points which are consistently ignored by the 'Remain' voters are as follows:
1. There appears to never have been any kind of in-depth template prepared by any UK Government for the eventuality that one day we may be leaving the EU. Nothing whatsoever.
2. Bringing the above point right up-to-date, in the run-in to the Referendum vote, the two main players in the Government (Cameron & Osbourne) made no plans whatsoever to set in place mechanisms that would kick in, in the event of an 'out' vote winning. One might say they did not need to do so; one might equally say that having called the Referendum, it was incumbent upon those in the highest seats of power to ensure that all eventualities were covered with regard to all processes, since it would be the Government of the day (or the future [albeit of the same shade] as it turned out) to implement the winning 'out' vote.

It is disingenuous of remain supporters in this thread to lay blame on those presently carrying the task forward of getting us out of the EU. The blame and shame lays with the likes of Cameron & Osbourne, two smug, arrogant, remain-supporting politicians who thought they would win and therefore did not make any plans whatsoever for anything other than their own views winning the day. They did an utter dis-service to the UK, and should forever hang their heads in shame for their shambolic approach to a very important issue. Further, both walking away from their posts in the aftermath of the vote shows their total disdain for the responsibility of governing the country in the first place. Total, utter, turds, both of them!

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

It's funny that you talk about Mussolini ect and yet it is you who show the breathtaking disregard for democracy that monsters such as him took for granted as though it's mearly a tool to be used and not somthing incredibly important to any supposedly civilized nation. Nobody has suggested that there shouldn't ever be another vote on the matter. Many of us (including many remainers who aren't as contemptuous of democracy), just feel we should at least forfill the first referndum before we go about perusing a second one. Holding election or referendums repeatedly till you get the desired result is not democracy at all, it is a twisted mockery of democracy.

For fill what terms? what Brexit? what is Brexit? even the sitting Government can’t decide. And so what if the will of the people want another and another referendum, it’s the will of the people, is it not?

Then you make an extremely odd comment suggesting that "Brexit has only got itself to blame". How exactly can Brexit in itself be to blame for anything? It's not a person or an object, it's not a thing. If you mean the government handling of Brexit or the people who voted for it well that is an entirety diffrent thing and you can make your arguments accordingly. As for the idea that the government should of convinced remainers that Brexit would be a good thing, well yes I somewhat agree they should attempted more effectively at least but in reality the vast majority of remainers had no intention of ever changing their mind on the issue regardless of how our leaving went even if it had been smooth saling. As far as creating devisions in the country goes, well how exactly would ignoring the majority's vote actually help fix devisions?!

Key proponents of Brexit are in positions of Government; they are key ministers and as far as im led to believe are people, well of sorts! Davis Johnson Fox, all three are perfect examples of talking big about Brexit as prominent Brexiteers now prominent Ministers and have been peddling back ever since they became ministers, like I said Brexit fault.

It’s all about you remainers isn’t it.

My concerns are as valid as yours, and since when in UK political democracy does the losing opposition just disappear and go away, the losing side has a fundamental role in UK democracy.

The Leavers have to convince you, but you also know that nothing ever will, because we are just uneducated, old and racist....

I’m not sure how many uneducated old racist there are in Brexit but statistically, there must be some?

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I’m not sure how many uneducated old racist there are in Brexit but statistically, there must be some?

At least three

 

[Old Blue 2]

At least three

Now that's naughty from a Mod. But I will refrain from commenting further...

 

[Joey66]

For fill what terms? what Brexit? what is Brexit? even the sitting Government can’t decide. And so what if the will of the people want another and another referendum, it’s the will of the people, is it not?







Key proponents of Brexit are in positions of Government; they are key ministers and as far as im led to believe are people, well of sorts! Davis Johnson Fox, all three are perfect examples of talking big about Brexit as prominent Brexiteers now prominent Ministers and have been peddling back ever since they became ministers, like I said Brexit fault.




My concerns are as valid as yours, and since when in UK political democracy does the losing opposition just disappear and go away, the losing side has a fundamental role in UK democracy.




I’m not sure how many uneducated old racist there are in Brexit but statistically, there must be some?

How many highly educated rich greedy barstwewards want, and voted remain!??.....

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Now that's naughty from a Mod. But I will refrain from commenting further...

I forgot what colour text I should use when messing about so went with black

 

[Gwladysstreetlad]

For fill what terms? what Brexit? what is Brexit? even the sitting Government can’t decide. And so what if the will of the people want another and another referendum, it’s the will of the people, is it not?

Brexit is what was written on the voting slip when you voted. It was quite plain, should Britain remain a member of the European union or leave the European Union. Not that difficult really is it. BTW who are you to decide that another Referndum (and another after that should the second not go your way either) is the "will of the people"?! Good of you to speak for the nation pal, but you should try and consult a little more before you speak for everyone.

Key proponents of Brexit are in positions of Government; they are key ministers and as far as im led to believe are people, well of sorts! Davis Johnson Fox, all three are perfect examples of talking big about Brexit as prominent Brexiteers now prominent Ministers and have been peddling back ever since they became ministers, like I said Brexit fault.

The goverment is lead by Taresa May a known remainer. Unless Brexiters actually ran every part of the government as a sort of Brexit coalition party (a movement that I hardly think you'd appreciate) then the government is not Brexit itself. Nor does your response answer my question about your rather odd comment claming that "Brexit only having itself to blame". It's still not a thing, expand more about your problems with the governments implementation of Brexit and those of us who voted for it if you want but blaming the concept of Brexit itself it just nonsense.

My concerns are as valid as yours, and since when in UK political democracy does the losing opposition just disappear and go away, the losing side has a fundamental role in UK democracy.

Your views are indeed just as valid as anyone else's be they remain or leave. Nobody has disputed that. It is you who seem to think you have the right to ignore leave voters and attempt to disregard the will of the majority. You are quite right that the losing party doesn't go away after losing, they continue to argue and attempt to hold the opposition to account. They don't however keep demanding reruns until they get what they want.

I’m not sure how many uneducated old racist there are in Brexit but statistically, there must be some?

Wonderful, more lazy sweeping generalisations.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

At least one, and thats me!

Brexit is what was written on the voting slip when you voted. It was quite plain, should Britain remain a member of the European union or leave the European Union. Not that difficult really is it. BTW who are you to decide that another Referndum (and another after that should the second not go your way either) is the "will of the people"?! Good of you to speak for the nation pal, but you should try and consult a little more before you speak for everyone.

Just the will of the people will suffice.

. It's still not a thing, expand more about your problems with the governments implementation of Brexit and those of us who voted for it if you want but blaming the concept of Brexit itself it just nonsense.

600 plus days and we are still waiting.

Your views are indeed just as valid as anyone else's be they remain or leave. Nobody has disputed that. It is you who seem to think you have the right to ignore leave voters and attempt to disregard the will of the majority. You are quite right that the losing party doesn't go away after losing, they continue to argue and attempt to hold the opposition to account. They don't however keep demanding reruns until they get what they want.

They can demand reruns if thats the will of people, even Farage on the eve of the result and more recently called for another Referendum, he since peddled back on that, seem to be the theme of Brexit, peddling backwards.

How many highly educated rich greedy barstwewards want, and voted remain!??.....

Not sure Brexit has the moral superiority upper hand on educated rich greedy barstwewards when Rees Mogg Alexander Boris de Pfeffel Johnson et al, sit in its ranks.

Wonderful, more lazy sweeping generalisations.

Indeed, the kettle calling pot black.... So there are no racist in the Brexit leave camp?

 

[Charlie Sweet]

I will accept the vote of paliament- it's not about hypothetical questions on the results of complicated negotiations, as long as we leave , and the. Democratic vote of the UK is carried forward positively by Parliment! End of - no second vote of the people - we voted to leave let the democratic vote win!

But then what's the point of parliament? The referendum was "advisory" only. It's for the MPs to take forward.

Anyway, to be clear you are saying you will happily accept David Davis coming back with his final deal that means the UK continues paying the same amount of money to the EU each year and abides by all the same laws (as part of a customs union and single market) - just without having a vote in anything? I presume the answer is yes as you've said you will take Brexit leaving the EU in any form.

Is that correct?