Socrates
Player Valuation: £6m
Exactly.
Current Affairs EU In or Out
- Thread starter micknick
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Exactly.
At least they are not 'experts'.
Or they are not Boris Johnson, with his 'we WILL find £350 million - now £490 million - per week for the NHS instead of for the EU '. Johnson will split the Tories to protect his big Goebbels lie about, 'the cost of the EU to the UK treasury'. Say it often and loud enough and it becomes the perceived 'wisdom'. Johnson can't let it drop because his credibility - what little there is anyway - is at stake and hangs over him wherever and whenever he opens his mouth.
Brexit
Business leaders push for new campaign to reverse Brexit
Senior figures in CBI urge lobby group to toughen its message amid concerns over exports
Dan Roberts Brexit policy editor
@RobertsDan
Mon 22 Jan 2018 17.57 GMTLast modified on Mon 22 Jan 2018 19.12 GMT
Business leaders are privately pushing for a new campaign to reverse Brexit as concerns mount about the viability of government plans to prevent a collapse in exports to Europe.
On Monday, the CBI launched its most sustained attack yet on the government’s Brexit strategy by calling for full customs union with the EU and single market participation, even if it means abandoning the pursuit of separate trade deals with the rest of the world.
Behind the scenes, senior figures on the CBI policy council are urging the lobby group to toughen its message still further and spell out their belief that this logic should ultimately lead to a national rethink of the decision to leave the EU, perhaps through a second referendum or an election.
While this is not the CBI’s official position, the group says it has decided to speak out about the problems of the government’s approach to Brexit after “thousands of conversations” and workshops with its members over the past two to three months.
“It’s not for us to say [whether to reverse Brexit], we are simply pointing out that you need single market access and you need a customs union,” said a spokesman. “If someone concludes that we therefore need to retest this, that’s a political decision, we are just being very practical about it.”
Government ministers reacted furiously to previews of the CBI’s evolving position over the weekend, which now directly challenges the British strategy of leaving the customs union so that new trade deals can be pursued outside a common tariff area.
The CBI director general, Carolyn Fairbairn, told an audience at Warwick University on Monday: “There may come a day when the opportunity to fully set independent trade policies outweighs the value of a customs union with the EU; a day when investing in fast-growing economies elsewhere eclipses the value of frictionless trade in Europe. But that day hasn’t yet arrived.”
The foreign secretary, Boris Johnson, responded by arguing that such a stance undermined the central goal of Brexit:
https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/955095296660443142
Boris Johnson
✔@BorisJohnson
2/2 Staying in the customs union means effectively staying in the EU: the EU *is* a customs union. It means no new free trade deals, no new export opportunities, and no leading role in the WTO.
The Department for Exiting the EU argues that Theresa May’s strategy of leaving the single market and customs union should not preclude a comprehensive free trade deal with Europe.
“The EU has said they will offer their most ambitious free trade approach and we are confident of negotiating a deep and special economic partnership that includes a good deal for financial services – that will be in the EU’s best interests, as well as ours,” said a DexEU spokeswoman.
Nonetheless, the increasing rejection of government trade policy by the very exporters who should have most to gain comes at an awkward time for Downing Street.
European leaders such as the European council president, Donald Tusk, and the French president, Emmanuel Macron, have been stepping up their twin-track approach of presenting an uncompromising opposition on “cherry picking” trade rules while welcoming the possibility of Britain changing its mind about Brexit.
Anti-Brexit campaign groups are increasingly putting their differences aside and uniting behind a push to give parliament and the electorate a chance to reconsider the decision to leave once it is clear what kind of deal the prime minister has been able to negotiate.
An internal CBI report on the future UK-EU relationship is scathing about the prospects for a “cake-and-eat-it” solution. “Government has all the right objectives on customs but – thus far – no proposals have been set forward that can deliver,” it says. “A customs union would require trade-offs on achieving an independent trade policy, but the benefits of such a policy are unproven.”
The CBI is unlikely to be able to take an overt position on a second referendum because some members remain of the view that the vote should not be revisited whatever the change in facts.
“Inevitably there are people who think the other way as well and the reason we can’t take political positions is because there are members who would be very annoyed if we did,” a CBI spokesman said. “What we are doing today is a reflection of the fact that people are quite impatient and are quite worried.”
Or they are not Boris Johnson, with his 'we WILL find £350 million - now £490 million - per week for the NHS instead of for the EU '. Johnson will split the Tories to protect his big Goebbels lie about, 'the cost of the EU to the UK treasury'. Say it often and loud enough and it becomes the perceived 'wisdom'. Johnson can't let it drop because his credibility - what little there is anyway - is at stake and hangs over him wherever and whenever he opens his mouth.
Brexit
Business leaders push for new campaign to reverse Brexit
Senior figures in CBI urge lobby group to toughen its message amid concerns over exports
Dan Roberts Brexit policy editor
@RobertsDan
Mon 22 Jan 2018 17.57 GMTLast modified on Mon 22 Jan 2018 19.12 GMT
Business leaders are privately pushing for a new campaign to reverse Brexit as concerns mount about the viability of government plans to prevent a collapse in exports to Europe.
On Monday, the CBI launched its most sustained attack yet on the government’s Brexit strategy by calling for full customs union with the EU and single market participation, even if it means abandoning the pursuit of separate trade deals with the rest of the world.
Behind the scenes, senior figures on the CBI policy council are urging the lobby group to toughen its message still further and spell out their belief that this logic should ultimately lead to a national rethink of the decision to leave the EU, perhaps through a second referendum or an election.
While this is not the CBI’s official position, the group says it has decided to speak out about the problems of the government’s approach to Brexit after “thousands of conversations” and workshops with its members over the past two to three months.
“It’s not for us to say [whether to reverse Brexit], we are simply pointing out that you need single market access and you need a customs union,” said a spokesman. “If someone concludes that we therefore need to retest this, that’s a political decision, we are just being very practical about it.”
Government ministers reacted furiously to previews of the CBI’s evolving position over the weekend, which now directly challenges the British strategy of leaving the customs union so that new trade deals can be pursued outside a common tariff area.
The CBI director general, Carolyn Fairbairn, told an audience at Warwick University on Monday: “There may come a day when the opportunity to fully set independent trade policies outweighs the value of a customs union with the EU; a day when investing in fast-growing economies elsewhere eclipses the value of frictionless trade in Europe. But that day hasn’t yet arrived.”
The foreign secretary, Boris Johnson, responded by arguing that such a stance undermined the central goal of Brexit:
https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/955095296660443142
Boris Johnson✔@BorisJohnson
2/2 Staying in the customs union means effectively staying in the EU: the EU *is* a customs union. It means no new free trade deals, no new export opportunities, and no leading role in the WTO.
The Department for Exiting the EU argues that Theresa May’s strategy of leaving the single market and customs union should not preclude a comprehensive free trade deal with Europe.
“The EU has said they will offer their most ambitious free trade approach and we are confident of negotiating a deep and special economic partnership that includes a good deal for financial services – that will be in the EU’s best interests, as well as ours,” said a DexEU spokeswoman.
Nonetheless, the increasing rejection of government trade policy by the very exporters who should have most to gain comes at an awkward time for Downing Street.
European leaders such as the European council president, Donald Tusk, and the French president, Emmanuel Macron, have been stepping up their twin-track approach of presenting an uncompromising opposition on “cherry picking” trade rules while welcoming the possibility of Britain changing its mind about Brexit.
Anti-Brexit campaign groups are increasingly putting their differences aside and uniting behind a push to give parliament and the electorate a chance to reconsider the decision to leave once it is clear what kind of deal the prime minister has been able to negotiate.
An internal CBI report on the future UK-EU relationship is scathing about the prospects for a “cake-and-eat-it” solution. “Government has all the right objectives on customs but – thus far – no proposals have been set forward that can deliver,” it says. “A customs union would require trade-offs on achieving an independent trade policy, but the benefits of such a policy are unproven.”
The CBI is unlikely to be able to take an overt position on a second referendum because some members remain of the view that the vote should not be revisited whatever the change in facts.
“Inevitably there are people who think the other way as well and the reason we can’t take political positions is because there are members who would be very annoyed if we did,” a CBI spokesman said. “What we are doing today is a reflection of the fact that people are quite impatient and are quite worried.”
At least these aren't 'experts' or maybe the wrong sort of experts.
JLR cuts Land Rover production amid diesel uncertainty
Image copyrightGETTY IMAGES
Image captionThe Range Rover Evoque has been made at Halewood since 2011
Jaguar Land Rover will cut production of some vehicles amid uncertainty over Brexit and changes to taxes on diesel cars.
The company will temporarily scale back output of the Discovery Sport and Range Rover Evoque models later this year.
Last week, JLR said its global sales hit a record in 2017, but that the UK market was "tough".
Vehicle makers have blamed Brexit confusion and a hike in diesel taxation for a general fall in UK car sales.
The two Land Rover models are made at the company's Halewood plant on Merseyside. Output will be reduced in the second quarter of 2018.
JLR said the car industry continued to face a "range of challenges" that were hitting consumer confidence.
"Ongoing uncertainty surrounding Brexit is being felt by customers at home - with demand for new cars down 5.7% in 2017 - and in Europe where collectively, we sell approximately 45% of total UK production.
"Add to this, concern around the future of petrol and diesel engines, and general global economic and political uncertainty and it's clear to see why industry is seeing an impact on car sales."
It said it regularly reviewed production schedules to ensure market demand was "balanced".
The Range Rover Evoque has been made at Halewood since 2011 and Discovery Sport since 2014.
"Volumes have remained at peak levels since that time, allowing us to maintain what was initially a three-shift pattern. These changes to operating patterns are temporary and sensible business practice," JLR added.
Figures from the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders for November showed the number of cars built in the UK fell 4.6%, driven lower by a fall in domestic demand, while exports grew.
SMMT chief executive Mike Hawes said at the time: "Brexit uncertainty, coupled with confusion over diesel taxation and air quality plans, continues to impact domestic demand for new cars and, with it, production output."
JLR cuts Land Rover production amid diesel uncertainty
- 22 January 2018
Image captionThe Range Rover Evoque has been made at Halewood since 2011
Jaguar Land Rover will cut production of some vehicles amid uncertainty over Brexit and changes to taxes on diesel cars.
The company will temporarily scale back output of the Discovery Sport and Range Rover Evoque models later this year.
Last week, JLR said its global sales hit a record in 2017, but that the UK market was "tough".
Vehicle makers have blamed Brexit confusion and a hike in diesel taxation for a general fall in UK car sales.
The two Land Rover models are made at the company's Halewood plant on Merseyside. Output will be reduced in the second quarter of 2018.
JLR said the car industry continued to face a "range of challenges" that were hitting consumer confidence.
"Ongoing uncertainty surrounding Brexit is being felt by customers at home - with demand for new cars down 5.7% in 2017 - and in Europe where collectively, we sell approximately 45% of total UK production.
"Add to this, concern around the future of petrol and diesel engines, and general global economic and political uncertainty and it's clear to see why industry is seeing an impact on car sales."
It said it regularly reviewed production schedules to ensure market demand was "balanced".
The Range Rover Evoque has been made at Halewood since 2011 and Discovery Sport since 2014.
"Volumes have remained at peak levels since that time, allowing us to maintain what was initially a three-shift pattern. These changes to operating patterns are temporary and sensible business practice," JLR added.
Figures from the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders for November showed the number of cars built in the UK fell 4.6%, driven lower by a fall in domestic demand, while exports grew.
SMMT chief executive Mike Hawes said at the time: "Brexit uncertainty, coupled with confusion over diesel taxation and air quality plans, continues to impact domestic demand for new cars and, with it, production output."
Charlie Sweet
Player Valuation: £35m
You're right it's complicated and there are lots of different variables (which is one of the reasons why it was lunacy to make it a simple Yes/No referendum but anyway....)
But the simple fact is that a very significant majority of economists believe that leaving the EU is a bad thing.
If you want to focus on debates involving legal jurisdiction and migration control that's another matter but on the economic front the prevailing wisdom is clear. What's more I'd say it's just simple common sense on the basis we're leaving the single largest free trading block on our doorstep!
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
We will still be trading with the EU. That will not cease.....
Using that logic then we already 'trade with the world'?
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
Indeed we do. We do more trade and with a trade surplus with the RoW. But we didn’t have to be part of a political entity to do so. Indeed this political entity is holding us back from doing even more world trade.......
Charlie Sweet
Player Valuation: £35m
You're like a man with Tourette's!
But in a Donald Trump world - these "alternative facts" have their day time and time again!
You ok mate?
Where is the evidence for 'this political entity is holding us back from doing even more world trade? Which sectors are being held back by the EU? Which parts of the world are the UK not trading with due to 'this political entity'?
Especially as in the relatively short time that the Brexit negotiations have been going on, the EU have concluded trade deals with Canada and Japan, whilst David Davies has done nada, despite claiming that there would be several all lined up by now.
Old Blue 2
Player Valuation: £40m
I'm fine Jimmy.
Find it hilarious that some people on here get all serious when I post something ironic from the BBC news page. Entirely predictable, of course. Been so since 24th June 2016. Mustn't frighten the horses!
Listening to some excellent Stones numbers (Honky Tonk Women at the moment) before heading off to a gig tonight.
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
We are unable to agree free trade deals other than those negotiated by the EU......"
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
Neither of the two trade deals are fully concluded and operating.......the EU will not allow The U.K. to sign any trade agreement while we remain in the EU......
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