Current Affairs EU In or Out

[jal123]

Given that all the other pillars that I built my vote upon have completely collapsed already absolutely not.

Can you expand?

Again I'm not interested in having a pop just find it interesting because you as a poster seem to align more with my views than the other lot.

 

[roydo]

I'd like to consider myself a decently centred individual, I mean the Sunday Times is my Sunday paper of choice and I enjoy the Red Box podcast for views from the 'other side'. However, should the bill pass tonight then it will remove the last standing pillar on which I built my vote to Leave last year. The bill is completely undemocratic and represents nothing more than a blatant power grab from this swivel-eyed government.

Why? As far as I can tell, it lobs all the EU rules onto the UK statute book as UK rules, then we can decide which ones we want to keep/amend/etc.

"Make our own rulze" Y'know.

Unless I have missed something.

 

[jal123]

Why? As far as I can tell, it lobs all the EU rules onto the UK statute book as UK rules, then we can decide which ones we want to keep/amend/etc.

"Make our own rulze" Y'know.

Unless I have missed something.

It means our government can remove laws and employment rights that protect those at the lowest end at will.

 

[roydo]

It means our government can remove laws and employment rights that protect those at the lowest end at will.

So make our own laws then.

Sound.

Hope some are happy.

 

[jal123]

So make our own laws then.

Sound.

Hope some are happy.

interesting how you interpret it that way, like a celebration of the inevitable removal of workers rights at the lowest end?

 

[roydo]

interesting how you interpret it that way, like a celebration of the inevitable removal of workers rights at the lowest end?

Not in the slightest mate.

I voted Stay. Now laugh at those who dont like that we are now making our own rules that they dont like. Not you btw.

I am sure the irony isnt lost on you.

 

[jal123]

Not in the slightest mate.

I voted Stay. Now laugh at those who dont like that we are now making our own rules that they dont like. Not you btw.

I am sure the irony isnt lost on you.

Sorry mate I misinterpreted.

The problem is 'they' (and I've worked factory jobs manual labour etc most of my life so I'm not sneering) were made to believe that voting leave would stop Eastern Europeans taking their mates jobs, I wonder why that was?

The ironic thing is, like you say, these lads are going to be the ones who are most screwed because instead of £300 a week for working these jobs (which is barely liveable on) they're going to find out that 3 or 4 or £5 an hour will be more the norm.

The thing that annoys me, as we see on this forum, some voters who voted leave are successful, mortgages paid off etc, kids through uni.

They won't be affected by their daughter being sacked when she falls pregnant, or if their working child gets sick and doesn't have a right to sick pay and so on.

The only good news is they'll hopefully be able to provide for them, after buying their houses for £20k and they're now worth 15x that!


Edit: especially because they wouldn't want them to be welfare scroungers!

 

[rascal]

Can you expand?

Again I'm not interested in having a pop just find it interesting because you as a poster seem to align more with my views than the other lot.

Firstly, I considered the EU to be undemocractic, it wasn't until I read Nick Clegg's book last Autumn that I realised that view was daft.

Secondly, I considered the EU to be a Neo-Liberals wet dream, and there is something in that still, to my mind. I consider it wrong that a gigantic construction company such as Hitachi Zozen Inova could just swoop in with its own labour force, construct and then leave, without giving any work to a local labour force. However, let's be real, whilst I could say that the EU is a neo-liberal wet dream, the reality is that Brexit was paid for by a few filthy rich hard-right men, who would love nothing more than to turn the UK into a tax haven at the expense of the working poor.

Thirdly, I thought that Brexit would enable closer ties with countries such as India, but in reality these countries are more interested in the EU than they are in us, and would sooner do a trade deal with the EU than with us.

Fourthly, the two campaigns each side ran. The Leave campaign was far more effective, it spoke of hope rather than despair. This is something that the Remain side should address in any forthcoming referendum, speak of the positives of the EU, closer integration with our friends, rather than Armageddon if we leave.

Fifthly, I thought that if all else fails then at least we won't leave the single market and put our economy at very real jeopardy...

 

[roydo]

Sorry mate I misinterpreted.

The problem is 'they' (and I've worked factory jobs manual labour etc most of my life so I'm not sneering) were made to believe that voting leave would stop Eastern Europeans taking their mates jobs, I wonder why that was?

The ironic thing is, like you say, these lads are going to be the ones who are most screwed because instead of £300 a week for working these jobs (which is barely liveable on) they're going to find out that 3 or 4 or £5 an hour will be more the norm.

The thing that annoys me, as we see on this forum, some voters who voted leave are successful, mortgages paid off etc, kids through uni.

They won't be affected by their daughter being sacked when she falls pregnant, or if their working child gets sick and doesn't have a right to sick pay and so on.

The only good news is they'll hopefully be able to provide for them, after buying their houses for £20k and they're now worth 15x that!

Lied to basically. Not that that has never happened in politics mind.

I just hope that the maintenance of workers rights, (which the UK trade union movement sort of invented anyrate), now they are on the UK statute, will remain there. Pretty sure they will.

As for the baby boomers point you allude to, my view on that is well documented.

But 52% of the UK voted for this. Hope they are happy.

 

[rascal]

Why? As far as I can tell, it lobs all the EU rules onto the UK statute book as UK rules, then we can decide which ones we want to keep/amend/etc.

"Make our own rulze" Y'know.

Unless I have missed something.

My friend you have missed a biggy. I don't know if you've got time to watch Starmer taking the government to task on it, but I recommend that you do. Fundamentally this bill gives the government carte blanche to do whatever the hell it wants.

 

[jal123]

Lied to basically. Not that that has never happened in politics mind.

I just hope that the maintenance of workers rights, (which the UK trade union movement sort of invented anyrate), now they are on the UK statute, will remain there. Pretty sure they will.

As for the baby boomers point you allude to, my view on that is well documented.

But 52% of the UK voted for this. Hope they are happy.

The problem is with regards to workers rights the right wing prominent leavers despise the trade union movement.

For clarity I'm in a trade union, I don't agree with a lot they do at grassroots level in my workplace but I do believe we are stronger together, and they're useful when you're in trouble with middle management jobsworths!

The being lied to point is in general most people aren't interested in politics, so when this campaign came out I believe they trusted people who appear on the BBC far too often (Farage etc) far too much, Boris is 'funny' on HIGNFY but even he didn't want this result.

I truly believe if there was another referendum the result would be completely different. If it wasn't, well, fine, but a campaign based on jingoism and lies has been seen through now.


I don't think there will be another referendum, I think the country will plough through with this nonsense, and I still hope the people on the housing estates who believed the lies aren't left to rot. My arl fella was in the navy his whole career and now lives in Spain but is entrenched in his views so I'm not picking on people from estates, I grew up on one like, but they / we are the ones who were manipulated here.

 

[orchard]

It'll get through imo, some good speeches today, but dumb sophistry from the right equating the bill with the only manner to leave will prevail and destroy the little democracy we have. Horrendous day.

 

[roydo]

My friend you have missed a biggy. I don't know if you've got time to watch Starmer taking the government to task on it, but I recommend that you do. Fundamentally this bill gives the government carte blanche to do whatever the hell it wants.

You voted for it mate, not me.

 

[rascal]

You voted for it mate, not me.

I'm cheesed off enough already without having to put up with your sneering, thanks.

 

[orchard]

Remain for me, not because one is intrinsically better than the other, but as a lesser evil. Our career-politicians are mostly self interested short-termists, and we would nearly all suffer as a consequence of Westminster having no external
restraints.