Current Affairs EU In or Out

[peteblue]

I don't imagine for a second that you're living off my endeavours, Pete. That would be beyond ridiculous. My parents are of your generation and I hope you're thoroughly enjoying a well-earned retirement.

I am worried I will lose my job because I work for a small food manufacturer who buys many ingredients from the EU, and I'm bloody terrified of a rise in interest rates putting my mortgage beyond me, and I am worried about the kind of education my kids are going to get when local schools are cutting staff left right and centre.

I don't expect anyone to feel sorry for me. Life isn't like that. Nobody owes you anything. I'm where I am now, which is better off than many people, through my own graft. but it's still bloody precarious.
The coming years aren't going to be hard for you, though, so don't sit there pontificating about how hard you had it and how we haven't got the stomach for it. Would you have grown up during rationing, given the choice?

I only mentioned how difficult life was because you had a pop at retired folk. I once bought a large house for our four kids with a granny flat for my mother, mortgage rates hit 15% almost overnight or so it felt, so many of us understand the word 'precarious'.

The coming years for me and my wife will indeed be very comfortable, but I still have 4 kids and a granddaughter who I have to worry about, who just like you have mortgages etc. Now do you think for one second that I would wish them ill, or wish to see them fall into difficulties ? I voted leave because I do not wish to see them end up like many in the EU. I want them to be part of a UK that stands on its own feet and makes its own way in the world. The world moves on and we need to move with it. As I've said before, if the UK wants to rejoin the EU in the future, just vote for the party that puts it on their manifesto.......

 

[peteblue]

If we had a snap second referendum right now, I'm certain remain would win.

The whole thing is madness, making life harder for ourselves.

If we had a second vote I believe that the Leave vote would be even greater.....

 

[JimmyJeffers]

If we had a second vote I believe that the Leave vote would be even greater.....

I'm not so sure. There's only been proper debate since we voted to leave the whole thing. Which both sides were guilty of. I reckon people are sick of hearing about it. Anyways, what's done is done, We'll end up with some watered down agreement that no one is happy with.

 

[peteblue]

1. I was old enough to witness the carnage that caused. Didn't really understand what was going on at the time, just saw friends families losing their houses. Sorry for not wanting that to happen to me.

2. Sorry, no. Pete sitting there "castigating" my generation for not having the "stomach" to "get on with" the "hard road ahead" while he's comfortably retired is not OK. It won't affect him. I've no doubt things were tougher in the immediate post-war years, but the coming years are going to be utterly grim for many of us and we're going to have to have the stomach for it. That it's so completely unnecessary is what galls.

I can respect him for getting himself where he is, fair play to the bloke. It's all most of us want, eventually, although it becomes more unlikely for anyone below 50 with each year that passes.

3. Of course rationing wasn't a choice, I didn't say it was, I asked, given the choice, would anyone have chosen to have lived through it? My parents and some aunts and uncles are old enough to have lived through it too.

What 'galls' is the incessant whinging, the assumption that everything is going to rat crap and that only being in the EU will save us. Remember George Osborne and his dire warnings for the day after the vote ? What is it with all this doom monger thought. Treat it as an opportunity. We will develop more trade with the USA (which has a bigger economy than the EU minus the UK), we will trade more with old partners Australia and Canada, develop more trade with China, Japan and India etc etc, and we will still trade with the EU unless they wish their trade surplus with us to disappear, which they don't.....

 

[Blue 1]

What 'galls' is the incessant whinging, the assumption that everything is going to rat crap and that only being in the EU will save us. Remember George Osborne and his dire warnings for the day after the vote ? What is it with all this doom monger thought. Treat it as an opportunity. We will develop more trade with the USA (which has a bigger economy than the EU minus the UK), we will trade more with old partners Australia and Canada, develop more trade with China, Japan and India etc etc, and we will still trade with the EU unless they wish their trade surplus with us to disappear, which they don't.....

I think you're living in dreamland, but I really, really, hope you turn out to be right.

All the best, at any rate.

 

[peteblue]

The EU are, quite rightly, concerned that the UK will do very well after we have left the EU. They are terrified that others might follow us out as well. That view alone should give us the confidence to move forward.

 

[peteblue]

.

The days of unskilled manufacturing are numbered I'm afraid. It's not just low wage competition, but also automation and the growing capabilities of 3D printing that will render low-skilled jobs in manufacturing largely a thing of the past. It's hard to overlook the sense that this vote was largely a protest by those that have/feel left behind by society, and whilst it's certainly been useful in highlighting that issue, I'm far from convinced that Brexit will make a blind bit of difference, or that the government appreciate the underlying issues behind the vote at all. It's much easier to blame the EU than it is to examine the root causes.

But now we will not be able to blame the EU and we will have to address these issues.......

 

[degsy]

If we had a snap second referendum right now, I'm certain remain would win.

The whole thing is madness, making life harder for ourselves.

Well I can agree with that first part, due to the tendency of people to take the (seemingly) easier option...especially after all the Hoo-Har.

Part the Second; is it madness or just new/different/strange/ etc...we have to contend with the human/political version of Newtons 1st law.

'May you live in Interesting times' is rightly a curse upon people...and for good reason, given what we have seen this past year or so.

 

[Tubey]

The Bank cut its forecast for economic growth this year from 1.9% to 1.7% and cut next year's forecast from 1.7% to 1.6%.

The cuts contrast with strong economic growth elsewhere around the world, which is enjoying its biggest boom in five years.

http://news.sky.com/story/bank-issues-pay-warning-and-cuts-growth-forecast-as-rates-held-10972082

Weird that. It's almost like we've done something uniquely stupid that the rest of the world hasn't do-

Oh wait.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

The EU are, quite rightly, concerned that the UK will do very well after we have left the EU. They are terrified that others might follow us out as well. That view alone should give us the confidence to move forward.

That's exactly the peculiar outlook I highlighted earlier Pete. On the one hand it's full of bravado that we're Britain and will be just grand, but on the other hand it seems to have an incredibly fragile basis and almost victim mentality that the EU are out to punish us. From all the EU people I've spoken to, they aren't looking to punish us, but are bemused as to why we would want to leave something in order to have a worse deal afterwards.

I'm sure the EU would have been a lot more worried had Wilders or Le Pen won in the Netherlands and France respectively, but they didn't. I suspect they're far more worried by the undemocratic behaviour of Poland and Hungary, and the unwelcome involvement of Trump than they are of Britain. Frankly we've been so utterly shambolic since the vote to leave that I can't imagine anyone looks on us with anything but pity.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

If we had a second vote I believe that the Leave vote would be even greater.....

If there ends up being a further referendum at the point of the final deal being ratified or not, say 3 years down the line whilst we're sat in the 'transition' extension (which I think is a distinct possibility) then virtually all of the 1.4m Brexit majority would be dead, based on the voting demographics at the referendum and UK mortality rates. That, combined with those being replaced by young voters who will have been added to the electorate by then, plus the many who've since given their head a wobble, and I think it'd be a comfortable victory for Remain.

 

[tommytowne]

With regards the lengthening queues at airport passport controls in EU countries.
Ok, queues are massive due to the British now classed as non EU. Surely that means that the amount of British going through the previously EU only gates has now shrunk.
So move the now under use border control staff to where they are needed. I don't accept that the time to check British passports should take any longer.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

With regards the lengthening queues at airport passport controls in EU countries.
Ok, queues are massive due to the British now classed as non EU. Surely that means that the amount of British going through the previously EU only gates has now shrunk.
So move the now under use border control staff to where they are needed. I don't accept that the time to check British passports should take any longer.

I'll be driving across Europe in a few weeks. I'll be prepared for all of those border controls between France-Belgium, Belgium-Luxembourg, Luxembourg-Germany and Germany-Czech. I'll be sure not to stop in the Mad Max style lands this lack of border control will undoubtedly create.

 

[peteblue]

With regards the lengthening queues at airport passport controls in EU countries.
Ok, queues are massive due to the British now classed as non EU. Surely that means that the amount of British going through the previously EU only gates has now shrunk.
So move the now under use border control staff to where they are needed. I don't accept that the time to check British passports should take any longer.

British are not classed as non EU. They are quite correctly classed as non Schengen. This would have been exactly the same had we voted to remain. Ireland are also non Schengen and have the same difficulties.......

 

[Old Blue 2]

If we had a second vote I believe that the Leave vote would be even greater.....

...given all the nasty rhetoric that has emanated from EU officials since the Referendum decision. They appear to look upon us a something on the soles of their shoes. Their malice is directed at us in spite, because they will lose a large chunk of dosh that they would rather have (obviously!). Realistically, I believe they don't give a toss about the UK, they just want our financial contribution to continue ad infinitum...