Current Affairs EU In or Out

[roydo]

roydo,
You know as well as I do, since you have involved yourself in this thread for a long, long, time, that the Leave vote was NOT essentially a punt. I went into great details for '25' recently about my personal decision, which you may have read, and that shows that for me it most certainly was not a punt.

You know (not you personally), the top man at the Bank of England (now if anyone should know their financial doo-doo, it's him) has preached all kinds of incorrect garbage since 23rd June last year, most of which has been wide of the mark. Just like the ex-Chancellor, George O. Isn't it time people actually woke up and started realising these people are pontificating for their own agenda only. Economists, financiers & bankers are some of the biggest gangsters on this planet...

Oh Christ, yes. Indeed, the whole lot know jack, and have agendas. No argument there.

I was a reluctant Remain voter, but based on the FACT that inside the EU, despite its annoying traits, and drift towards a federal union, we were members of the Single Market. The largest trading block on the planet.

Now, we arnt.

We currently have a clock ticking to agree trade agreements, individual rights of UK and EU citizens in the EU and the UK. Plus a blizzard of other stuff to sort out.

You, me, have absolutely no idea how it will all play out.

So. Fact. We left the Single Market.

Fact. We have no idea what we will end up with.

Ergo. Punt.

 

[magicjuan]

An unmitigated mess. One I readily voted for. Always opposed the EU. Happy enough with the Common Matket, even to an extent the EEC. But there was never, ever a mandate from the British public on Maastricht, Lisbon or the myriad other cack-handed 'deals and pacts' made by UK governments. All done for the benefit of corporations. Even the minimum wage, hailed as a coup was a sting, allowing companies to easily meet the legislation and not have to pay a fair wage legally.

I wanted a point of critical mass to be reached to get the public up off their arses and take a genuine interest in what was being done to them in their own name. Maybe we'll reach it, but certainly people seem to have at least become curious and more involved politically.

The fundamental issue for May et al is how they appease their traditional partners in business whilst carrying out the wishes of the public, the very public that the European Corporatocracy has been stitching up for years.

A train wreck, in a car crash, through suicidal motives. Faith. Popcorn time....vive la revolution

 

[Old Blue 2]

Oh Christ, yes. Indeed, the whole lot know jack, and have agendas. No argument there.

I was a reluctant Remain voter, but based on the FACT that inside the EU, despite its annoying traits, and drift towards a federal union, we were members of the Single Market. The largest trading block on the planet.

Now, we arnt.

We currently have a clock ticking to agree trade agreements, individual rights of UK and EU citizens in the EU and the UK. Plus a blizzard of other stuff to sort out.

You, me, have absolutely no idea how it will all play out.

So. Fact. We left the Single Market.

Fact. We have no idea what we will end up with.

Ergo. Punt.

I agree with all you say... except the last sentence. Not so much a 'punt', but rather a leap into the unknown for those who were not around, or were not old enough to understand, how things were pre-Common Market. I know the world has changed since the mid-1970s , but we got by without European dictation before then, and we will get by without it again in the future.

As I have posted before, the brutal, financial, bottom line is that European countries (particularly the 'Big Guns') will want to cut trade deals with us, and deals that will work both ways. To not do so would harm their import/export policy in turn. All sides are playing their cards close to their chest, as far as I can see at the moment, and there is no surprise in that at all. But as has been pointed out before, are they REALLY going to try to cut a trade deal such that we say stuff ALL the cars your country ships to us? Can you imagine the furore in Germany from the big industrial giants BMW, Audi & Mercedes; in France from Peugeot & Citroen? No Sir, they are not going to cripple their own export market in order to make a point against us. Car workers sacked in Germany or France because of swingeing terms re Brexit would, I suspect, cause major trouble for the respective Governments there.

 

[bring the ghost on]

But, but, but, everyone has opinions.

You and Joey are acting like people aren't allowed to express them. "The result is the result - end of".

But not everyone cries their leg off...

I know some people who throw tantrums about it ;-)

 

[Old Blue 2]

You and Joey are acting like people aren't allowed to express them. "The result is the result - end of".

I know some people who throw tantrums about it ;-)

No change from you then, ghost. Taking the usual tilt. On the contrary, YOU, and others like you, don't like the fact that some people on here hold a different opinion to you, and so take regular swipes at us. You and the Remainers are the ones who have thrown tantrums in this thread for the last 12 months. Hilarious!!!

Just accept that we will agree to disagree...

 

[bring the ghost on]

No change from you then, ghost. Taking the usual tilt. On the contrary, YOU, and others like you, don't like the fact that some people on here hold a different opinion to you, and so take regular swipes at us. You and the Remainers are the ones who have thrown tantrums in this thread for the last 12 months. Hilarious!!!

Just accept that we will agree to disagree...

Find a post of mine where I've thrown a tantrum about the EU OB2.

I can find many, many of yours..

 

[Old Blue 2]

Find a post of mine where I've thrown a tantrum about the EU OB2.

I can find many, many of yours..

No point, mate. You've pestered me for months. You're old hat. Boring. Give it up...

 

[bring the ghost on]

YOU, and others like you

You and the Remainers are the ones who have thrown tantrums

You see, this is your problem OB2, you throw anyone who disagrees with you into a single category and think they're all out to insult you and demand a second referendum.

Funny that you couldn't show a single post of mine where I've been disrespectful to a Leave voter or "thrown a tantrum".

As for "old hat", well, don't get me started....

 

[Old Blue 2]

You see, this is your problem OB2, you throw anyone who disagrees with you into a single category and think they're all out to insult you and demand a second referendum.

Funny that you couldn't show a single post of mine where I've been disrespectful to a Leave voter or "thrown a tantrum".

As for "old hat", well, don't get me started....

I won't suggest you read through all 1291 pages to read all the crap that has been written. Let's recap how the present conversation started:
JammyP said: "It really is not too late to have another vote, and to stay in."
So I said: "Yay, let's have another vote, and another, and another, until the criers get their way!" It's called ironic humour, ghost...
Then you come in with: "Live(sic) how OB2 and Joey seem to think that after a referendum, no one is allowed an opinion." Hello! What? Where did I say no one is allowed an opinion, or that I thought that? You're attributing words that were simply not there.
And then you come up with sarcasm: "Also OB2, get your guitar, have a beer, play us a tune and chill. This thread makes you too excited." Oh dear, is that the best you can do? Uncalled for sarcasm.
I then posted this: "But, but, but, everyone has opinions. (this is called ironic humour...)
But not everyone cries their leg off...
And not everyone is all doom and gloom..."
In the meantime my discussion was continuing with 'roydo'.
But you continue sniping, thus: "You and Joey are acting like people aren't allowed to express them. "The result is the result - end of"." No we are not! And surprising enough, the end result is that negotiations are now in progress to arrange our exit from the EU.
And: "I know some people who throw tantrums about it ;-)" Ooooh, veiled hints! I wonder who you mean...???
So I replied: "No change from you then, ghost. Taking the usual tilt. On the contrary, YOU, and others like you, don't like the fact that some people on here hold a different opinion to you, and so take regular swipes at us. You and the Remainers are the ones who have thrown tantrums in this thread for the last 12 months. Hilarious!!!"

Now, as I said at the top of this post, you won't go through all 1291 pages of this thread, but enough people who have followed the thread over 12 months CAN SEE just how much flak has been directed at those who voted Leave. Yours is the latest. Making sly digs and attributing things to me & Joey without any substance to the claims. Let me refresh your memory. You started the present exchange with: "Live(sic) how OB2 and Joey seem to think that after a referendum, no one is allowed an opinion."

Ghost, you're just a wind-up merchant.

Apologies for having a different point of view to you...

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I agree with all you say... except the last sentence. Not so much a 'punt', but rather a leap into the unknown for those who were not around, or were not old enough to understand, how things were pre-Common Market. I know the world has changed since the mid-1970s , but we got by without European dictation before then, and we will get by without it again in the future.

As I have posted before, the brutal, financial, bottom line is that European countries (particularly the 'Big Guns') will want to cut trade deals with us, and deals that will work both ways. To not do so would harm their import/export policy in turn. All sides are playing their cards close to their chest, as far as I can see at the moment, and there is no surprise in that at all. But as has been pointed out before, are they REALLY going to try to cut a trade deal such that we say stuff ALL the cars your country ships to us? Can you imagine the furore in Germany from the big industrial giants BMW, Audi & Mercedes; in France from Peugeot & Citroen? No Sir, they are not going to cripple their own export market in order to make a point against us. Car workers sacked in Germany or France because of swingeing terms re Brexit would, I suspect, cause major trouble for the respective Governments there.

Tariffs are such a small part of international cooperation (which is what trade deals are) that I don't really know why people continue to get hung up on them.

With cars there will be cooperation around firms and driverless regulations, just as there is around data governance for digital firms, nuclear materials management for energy firms, drug and food regulations in those industries and many more.

Leavers were spun the line that this is interference and loss of sovereignty, when in reality it is fundamental to global markets.

If you have global trade then you need global rules to ensure fairness, and thus a global referee to police them. It's what makes this trading with the world rhetoric so very naive.

 

[orchard]

It'll be interesting how the public reacts to the current Government taking onboard far more complex safety responsibility after all the recent simple issues of fire-safety management.

Tariffs are such a small part of international cooperation (which is what trade deals are) that I don't really know why people continue to get hung up on them.

With cars there will be cooperation around firms and driverless regulations, just as there is around data governance for digital firms, nuclear materials management for energy firms, drug and food regulations in those industries and many more.

Leavers were spun the line that this is interference and loss of sovereignty, when in reality it is fundamental to global markets.

If you have global trade then you need global rules to ensure fairness, and thus a global referee to police them. It's what makes this trading with the world rhetoric so very naive.

 

[orchard]

Whilst most eyes are on the HoC today, the HOL is looking tasty:
Oral questions
Measures to combat terrorist and extremist propaganda released through multimedia channels
Oral questions
Report by Sir Stephen Sedley: 'Missing evidence: an inquiry into the delayed publication of government-commissioned research'


Debate on the Address
Exiting the European Union
Motion
To move, as an amendment to the motion that a Humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, at end to insert “but call upon Her Majesty’s Government to suspend, for the time being, the negotiations for leaving the European Union; and, to that end, to withdraw, for the time being, the notification of intention to leave the European Union in accordance with Article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon, conveyed in the Prime Minister’s letter of 29 March.”
Motion
To move, as an amendment to the motion that a Humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, at end to insert “but, recognising that no deal is the worst possible deal, call upon Her Majesty’s Government to seek to negotiate a Brexit that prioritises jobs and the economy; delivers the exact same benefits as the United Kingdom currently has as a member of the single market and customs union; ensures that there is no weakening of co-operation in security and policing; and maintains the existing rights of European Union nationals living in the United Kingdom and United Kingdom nationals living in the European Union.”
Motion
To move, as an amendment to the motion that a Humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, at end to insert “but regret that it contains no proposal for Her Majesty’s Government to seek to negotiate continued membership of the European Single Market and Customs Union.”

 

[Number_25]

MOON LANDING

WE'VE LOST THE PLOT

GO HOME EVERYONE

 

[hullefc]

​

MOON LANDING

WE'VE LOST THE PLOT

GO HOME EVERYONE

And he's the so called 'brains' of the negotiating team.

 

[Joey66]

You and Joey are acting like people aren't allowed to express them. "The result is the result - end of".



I know some people who throw tantrums about it ;-)

It's the moans and groans over 12 months now by Remoaners - another referendum- let's stay in the single market instead of yes let's negotiate to access the single market - the lack of taking a plunge in trading worldwide - trying scare tactics used in the pre referendum debate - a sensible deal has to be done to get the ball and chain of our country i.e. The Polictical domination of the EU!