The Irish government are demanding that the North has special status - that will mean no borders, cross border institutes can operate as before, free movement of goods and people all of which is enshrined in the Good Friday Agreement. This will not go down well with the DUP who don't want special status but to be governed by the same things that happens to the rest of the UK. Odd really, that they claim to want to strike free trade deals with the EU and the rest of the world, but want borders on the island of Ireland that restricts trade.
Current Affairs EU In or Out
- Thread starter micknick
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Bluerover
Player Valuation: £60m
Not quite mate - they want a "soft" border with Ireland but they have no proposal as to how that is going to happen. They would have a large number of farmer voters who do not want a border for agri-food trade with the South.
Of course, since your post yesterday the details of the agreement with them are known as well as the knock on Barnett Formula as regards Scotland and Wales. This really brings the economic arguments fro Brexit into complete disarray - plenty on this in the General election thread.
Just thinking, like: in the 1975 Referendum the electorate expressed significant support for EC membership, with 67% in favour on a national turnout of 64%. Were those who kept on asking to leave undemocratic? The more I hear, the more this whole business seems to me to be turning into a fustercluck. It really is not too late to have another vote, and to stay in. I don't understand what conceivable (i.e. plausible, likely to happen) deal is going to leave us better off. Norway model touted by many leavers before the vote would leave us with all the EU rules, but less sovereignty. Hard Brexit will not get past this parliament, which parliament the electorate voted for, after the referendum (so it must take precedence, surely?).
While we can both agree that Joe Royle was magnificent in his prompt and remains an absolute diamond, I think you probably need to accept that people who disagree with your take on Brexit (and were appalled at the dodgy platform which leavers put forward) will keep banging their drum, while you keep banging yours.
Look I voted twice to join, and stay in Europe as a trading block not a polictical union the democratic vote won why people can't accept it?
We want our own model with concessions on both sides oh to be able to trade world wide with no Polictical influence from the EU is like losing a ball and chain - trade agreement - yes - Polictical union - no
I am old enough to remember freedom our own fisheries etc etc I want it back - work visas for all countries in , and out yes we need working immigration yet our youngsters Need better skills training - tradespeople are disappearing far too much universities need more funding into technical colleges, and hands on skill in the work place training!
Joe Royle was ace
Old Blue 2
Player Valuation: £40m
Yay, let's have another vote, and another, and another, until the criers get their way!
Pu-leez!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hard Brexit, Soft Brexit = media terms to fuel debate.
Bottom line: Exit from the EU on mutually agreed terms. They need us as much (probably less, given that they will eventually lose a SHEDLOAD of dosh from us) as we need them. There is no point in the EU turning gangster on us - it is not in their best interests, but the smokescreen garbage at the moment is just incredible...
Pu-leez!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Hard Brexit, Soft Brexit = media terms to fuel debate.
Bottom line: Exit from the EU on mutually agreed terms. They need us as much (probably less, given that they will eventually lose a SHEDLOAD of dosh from us) as we need them. There is no point in the EU turning gangster on us - it is not in their best interests, but the smokescreen garbage at the moment is just incredible...
Old Blue 2
Player Valuation: £40m
Brackets in the above post should come after 'we need them'. Fingers racing ahead of brain...
Bluerover
Player Valuation: £60m
As posted yesterday in the General Election thread, UK is a net contributor of about £8.6 Bn per annum.
Leaving will mean that the UK farmers will expect HMG to pay the £3.1 Bn in CAP payments; the deal with the DUP will cost a minimum of £1 Bn and if Scotland and Wales insist on implementation of the Barnett Formula, that could rise to £3.5 Bn (not p.a. admittedly, but a hell of a bill from the non-existent money tree).
Tariffs for UK exports to the EU market of 678m people are calculated to cost UK exporters at least £4.5 Bn p.a. so all of this that wipes out the saving from the UK's SHEDLOAD of dosh for a few years at least!!
"The damage to Britain’s goods exporters of leaving the European Union without a new free trade deal in place would be at least £4.5bn a year – and in all likelihood many multiples of that – an investigation by The Independent has found".
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...xports-negotiations-david-davis-a7325326.html
So, having jumped out without a parachute, and with minimal if any financial gain, the UK exporters will have to reduce production costs or their goods will be unsaleable in the EU - the consequences for jobs are obvious.
The US is adopting a protectionist policy as regard its production so unless the UK is producing economically in large numbers what is not already produced in the USA, then that is not going to be the answer - much larger transport costs obviously to USA also.
So...where are these alternative markets for current UK exports to the EU which were worth £155Bn in 2015 ?
It is a bleak scenario I'm afraid.
Old Blue 2
Player Valuation: £40m
Oh dear, glass not so much half empty as completely empty.
No mention of unknown advantages in the future.
Holes all over the place in Bluerover's post, but can't be arsed to point them out. We'd better have more votes and more votes and more votes.
Yeah, let's have more votes on Brexit.
Tell ya what, let's have more votes on Brexit...
Yawn, yawn, yawn...
No mention of unknown advantages in the future.
Holes all over the place in Bluerover's post, but can't be arsed to point them out. We'd better have more votes and more votes and more votes.
Yeah, let's have more votes on Brexit.
Tell ya what, let's have more votes on Brexit...
Yawn, yawn, yawn...
abelard
Player Valuation: £35m
Like Sugarcandy Mountain!
bring the ghost on
Player Valuation: £35m
Live how OB2 and Joey seem to think that after a referendum, no one is allowed an opinion.
The Tories won the election by a similarly slim margin as Leave won the referendum, does that mean we can't criticise Theresa May?
The Tories won the election by a similarly slim margin as Leave won the referendum, does that mean we can't criticise Theresa May?
bring the ghost on
Player Valuation: £35m
Also OB2, get your guitar, have a beer, play us a tune and chill. This thread makes you too excited.
roydo
in memoriam - 1965-2024
Whilst true, and indeed, it might be utterly ace.
But it also proves the point a few of us were a tad concerned about; a Leave vote was essentially a punt.
Old Blue 2
Player Valuation: £40m
But, but, but, everyone has opinions.
But not everyone cries their leg off...
And not everyone is all doom and gloom...
Old Blue 2
Player Valuation: £40m
roydo,
You know as well as I do, since you have involved yourself in this thread for a long, long, time, that the Leave vote was NOT essentially a punt. I went into great details for '25' recently about my personal decision, which you may have read, and that shows that for me it most certainly was not a punt.
You know (not you personally), the top man at the Bank of England (now if anyone should know their financial doo-doo, it's him) has preached all kinds of incorrect garbage since 23rd June last year, most of which has been wide of the mark. Just like the ex-Chancellor, George O. Isn't it time people actually woke up and started realising these people are pontificating for their own agenda only. Economists, financiers & bankers are some of the biggest gangsters on this planet...
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