Current Affairs EU In or Out
- Thread starter micknick
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Did you have Rule Britannia playing in the background when you wrote that?
To be honest I am hoping to see stronger ties with the Commonwealth countries after Brexit so maybe yes, just a little bit!lol
Did you have Rule Britannia playing in the background when you wrote that?
Seriously though, there seems an implication in what you are saying that either Brexit is a less intelligent option or that voting for it is somehow a harking back to bygone times rather than a looking forward.
Well it is possible that some people voted for it for those reasons and obviously the whole issue is a matter of opinion but I would refute it is about either of those things.
At its base it is a simple consitutional decision that will have us back in line with our history (Britain has spent longer as a separate country or union of the British countries than as part of a European federation, and , as empires build they surely die away again and that is IMO what is likely to happen with the EU over the next 10-15 years).
I think once the initial effects are over we will be better off and better admired out than in.
It's hard to see how things really change a great deal though. I mean if you examine what 'trading with the world' really means, you're essentially talking about government levers, as obviously companies can trade with whomever they want already.
So, you have tariff related instruments, which are quite self-explanatory, and non-tariff related instruments, which are things like standards harmonisation and migration agreements. In all likelihood, any such deals struck with other countries will bare a very strong resemblance to the one we had already with the EU, or no deals will be struck.
If we are part of a global system of trade, then there are a great many non-tariff related things that are best set on a global level to allow for fair competition. Things like employment, environmental or quality standards, for instance. So the notion that Britain will be sovereign over everything and no external party will have any influence on how we function is unlikely unless we opt out of global trade.
People harp on about bring governed by Brussels, but most of the regulations are around eminently sensible things. Even when we leave, there will be regulations that remain that dictate how Britons in Europe can access 'shared services' in the same way that EU nationals here will hopefully be able to.
I think if the EU fails it will be an incredibly retrograde step for European society. You mention that it's existed for a relatively short time, but its existence coincides with a period of peace in Europe that we have never seen before. I've no doubt people will argue that is purely a coincidence, but throughout history, European states have fought one another because existence has been competitive rather than cooperative. You can see the tone of discourse already returning to spikiness and we haven't even left yet.
Theresa May poured scorn on 'citizens of the world', but that's what everyone is. We're all human beings, and all have an enormous amount in common. I really hope we don't forget that.
1966efc
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Guessing you mean Western Europe?
Foot Long Hot Dog
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The main reason we joined the common market in the first place was because our historical trade with the Colonies was dying off, and we increasingly doing business with those closest to us.
We're now on the cusp of putting up trade barriers with 27 of our closest markets, it's economic genius.
I'm happy to be corrected, but I don't think there has ever been armed conflict between two EU countries.
Foot Long Hot Dog
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I'm yet to hear a Leave vote give a sensible example of an EU law that tangibly impinges on their existence and they can't wait to see the back of.
1966efc
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I misunderstood. I thought you said there'd been peace in Europe, which is clearly rubbish and was therefore surprised.
As far as I know, no Common market etc members have slaughtered each other in recent times. Not that Luxembourg, Belgium and Holland were famous for aggro with their neighbours.
Has the E U (or its predecessors) kept peace between Western Euro countries? It usually means between France and Germany with others being dragged in. In the immediate aftermath of WW2, occupying troops may have played a part, not to mention exhausted economies and man power. In succeeding years, the Bear was probably the major player ... two argumentative kids can usually find common purpose when a big bloke holds a gun to their heads.
Old Blue 2
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And you took it further, Bruce...
Posted workers directive,
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Times I've been told to speak English before Brexit: 0.
Times I've been told to speak English since Brexit: 6.
Cachau bant.
Times I've been told to speak English since Brexit: 6.
Cachau bant.
tsubaki
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I see some Polish MEP has been banned for a few days and fined a months subsistence allowance because he suggested women were less intelligent than men.
That his "subsistence allowance" was more than eight grand may perhaps explain why so many across the continent are not pro-EU.
That his "subsistence allowance" was more than eight grand may perhaps explain why so many across the continent are not pro-EU.
Nice thoughtful post Bruce and I agree with you about the EU helping keep peace between it's countries (even though I am concerned about its likelihood of it - or the US if Hilary had been elected - starting wars with Russia or others).
I agree with your idea of us being citizens of the world and that's one reason I am not pro EU - I identify with being a citizen of the world rather than just being European.I believe the EU just focusses on Europe and that Britains will best be able to identify as citizens out of the world rather than in it.
On whether the EU will fail or not, I could be wrong (the US union of states jas survived) but I think that it has grown so large with increasingly disparate members that holding it together will be increasingly difficult.
EU big wigs (I use that term as I am not sure who they are or how they were appointed) talk about not giving Britain too good a deal in case other countries want to leave. Well, if the EU was so good surely countries wouldn't want to leave - if they had confidence in what the EU offered then they wouldn't have to try and did used people from leaving.
Fair point but.....if trade barriers are such a bad thing then why does the EU insist that all its members put up compulsory trade barriers (via the customs union) with all the non-EU countries in the world?
Is the EU a benevolent organisation or one that actually harms the rest of the world in order to preserve its own self interests (or as even that seems to he working less and less now, the self interests of Germany)?
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