Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Blue 1]

I posted this in the Trump thread......the EU used a flag for the USA with an extra star....god only knows where they got it, but if you cannot even get a flag right........

Has the EU flag got one star less than usual as well?

Perhaps they're discussing the future of the UK...

 

[hallamblue]

I posted this in the Trump thread......the EU used a flag for the USA with an extra star....god only knows where they got it, but if you cannot even get a flag right........

In the words of TheThe back in the day, "This is the 51st State of the USA"

 

[hallamblue]

I can't believe you're being so undemocratic and looking to go against the will of the people.

I don't understand. The will of the people was to leave the EU. I'm surprised you don't want the UK to stop being a call centre and shopping based economy, and rebalance towards manufacturing and agriculture.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I don't understand. The will of the people was to leave the EU. I'm surprised you don't want the UK to stop being a call centre and shopping based economy, and rebalance towards manufacturing and agriculture.

Equally, the will of shoppers is to buy things from Primark et al. Personally I think it would be utterly absurd to 'rebalance' the economy towards agriculture, and thankfully the industrial strategy makes no such suggestions. We benefit enormously from global trade in agriculture and manufacturing, and equally we benefit enormously from global trade in things we do exceptionally well, like services, life sciences and engineering.

You mentioned clothing earlier, and we have a thriving fashion industry, but as befitting a leading economy, that fashion industry is in the high value-added stuff like design, not low value-add like manufacturing. Indeed, it's estimated that the fashion industry generates roughly 3 times what agriculture does, but financial and business services are 5 times that. I'm afraid if we try and force companies to re-shore low skilled work, then the work may come back, but it will be done by machines rather than people.

 

[Joey66]

Equally, the will of shoppers is to buy things from Primark et al. Personally I think it would be utterly absurd to 'rebalance' the economy towards agriculture, and thankfully the industrial strategy makes no such suggestions. We benefit enormously from global trade in agriculture and manufacturing, and equally we benefit enormously from global trade in things we do exceptionally well, like services, life sciences and engineering.

You mentioned clothing earlier, and we have a thriving fashion industry, but as befitting a leading economy, that fashion industry is in the high value-added stuff like design, not low value-add like manufacturing. Indeed, it's estimated that the fashion industry generates roughly 3 times what agriculture does, but financial and business services are 5 times that. I'm afraid if we try and force companies to re-shore low skilled work, then the work may come back, but it will be done by machines rather than people.

We are ok Bruce - Bill Gates is already asking machinedrobots to be taxed in the future if they replace humans in the workplace!

 

[hallamblue]

Equally, the will of shoppers is to buy things from Primark et al. Personally I think it would be utterly absurd to 'rebalance' the economy towards agriculture, and thankfully the industrial strategy makes no such suggestions. We benefit enormously from global trade in agriculture and manufacturing, and equally we benefit enormously from global trade in things we do exceptionally well, like services, life sciences and engineering.

You mentioned clothing earlier, and we have a thriving fashion industry, but as befitting a leading economy, that fashion industry is in the high value-added stuff like design, not low value-add like manufacturing. Indeed, it's estimated that the fashion industry generates roughly 3 times what agriculture does, but financial and business services are 5 times that. I'm afraid if we try and force companies to re-shore low skilled work, then the work may come back, but it will be done by machines rather than people.

I hear what you're saying, but the fact is that as long as we come up with ideas, but export the manufacturing process, very few people benefit. In Sheffield, where I live, they have Advanced Manufacturing Parks being developed, to try and ensure that as well as generating ideas, industrial units can be built to manufacture products, otherwise 10 people in the UK get rich, and 5,000 people in China get jobs.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

We are ok Bruce - Bill Gates is already asking machinedrobots to be taxed in the future if they replace humans in the workplace!

Nice for headlines but completely un-thought through.

I hear what you're saying, but the fact is that as long as we come up with ideas, but export the manufacturing process, very few people benefit. In Sheffield, where I live, they have Advanced Manufacturing Parks being developed, to try and ensure that as well as generating ideas, industrial units can be built to manufacture products, otherwise 10 people in the UK get rich, and 5,000 people in China get jobs.

I'd say the overwhelming majority of jobs in the service sector are based in Britain. This is the dichotomy we face. The economy isn't going to grow by shifting a few hundred thousand people into farming jobs. It might grow if we have the skills and capabilities to create some of the next generation of machinery and analytics that are powering the modern farm, but then those kind of jobs aren't likely to benefit smaller towns, the likes of which voted to leave.

As an example, I was talking today to some companies based in Teeside, and through the university there, they've developed something of a cluster around augmented reality, which is great and they're offering young people in Newcastle work in a growth field. But, the jobs are highly skilled ones, and they're based in a big city, none of which is much help if you're low skilled and living in Gateshead (who voted to leave, whereas Newcastle voted to remain).

It really does revolve around skills.

 

[Number_25]

I hear what you're saying, but the fact is that as long as we come up with ideas, but export the manufacturing process, very few people benefit. In Sheffield, where I live, they have Advanced Manufacturing Parks being developed, to try and ensure that as well as generating ideas, industrial units can be built to manufacture products, otherwise 10 people in the UK get rich, and 5,000 people in China get jobs.

Millions of jobs in China are going as a result of automation.

Let's not be short sighted about this.

 

[hallamblue]

Nice for headlines but completely un-thought through.



I'd say the overwhelming majority of jobs in the service sector are based in Britain. This is the dichotomy we face. The economy isn't going to grow by shifting a few hundred thousand people into farming jobs. It might grow if we have the skills and capabilities to create some of the next generation of machinery and analytics that are powering the modern farm, but then those kind of jobs aren't likely to benefit smaller towns, the likes of which voted to leave.

As an example, I was talking today to some companies based in Teeside, and through the university there, they've developed something of a cluster around augmented reality, which is great and they're offering young people in Newcastle work in a growth field. But, the jobs are highly skilled ones, and they're based in a big city, none of which is much help if you're low skilled and living in Gateshead (who voted to leave, whereas Newcastle voted to remain).

It really does revolve around skills.

Yes we need a "knowledge economy", but the big disconnect is in lower skilled jobs. Back in the day, if you lived in the North East you could go into shipbuilding, or coal. In Sheffield, Steel or Coal. In Suffolk, you went into agriculture. We trained bricklayers and plumbers in technical colleges. Now we have a pool of labour of this kind working in call centres and shops and they hate it. People have lost the sense of community that a pit or a steelworks gave them, and the challenge for the UK is to engage these people, otherwise we are storing up trouble, and people like Farage and Trump take advantage of this disconnect.

 

[hallamblue]

Millions of jobs in China are going as a result of automation.

Let's not be short sighted about this.

Indeed, they are going to go through what every economy goes through. When I was growing up, everything was "Made in Japan", and look at the state of Japan now.

 

[Number_25]

Indeed, they are going to go through what every economy goes through. When I was growing up, everything was "Made in Japan", and look at the state of Japan now.

I think the calls for us to revert back to the industrial powerhouse we haven't been for five decades is a bit of a silly one. I believe that we as a country can be at the forefront of the post-industrial/post-capitalism world, provided we do it properly.

 

[hallamblue]

I think the calls for us to revert back to the industrial powerhouse we haven't been for five decades is a bit of a silly one. I believe that we as a country can be at the forefront of the post-industrial/post-capitalism world, provided we do it properly.

Not an industrial powerhouse, but we could certainly manufacture more than we do now. And we could train our young people better. The country needs plumbers, bricklayers and electricians and we are churning out people with Mickey Mouse degrees from 3rd rate universities with £50k worth of debt around their necks.

 

[Chewbacca]

The whole fact is that other countries don't do it better, they do it cheaper as they pay their labour force buttons. So you get companies like Primark and Sports Direct selling cheap rubbish clothing which people buy and then throw away 3 months later. If we had an economy where we manufactured good quality clothing, and tariffs meant clothing from the 3rd world wasn't much cheaper, we would soon rebuild a textile manufacturing base.

No, the demand would drop massively.

 

[ToffeeTim]

There will never in history be a time where manufacturing is rendered obsolete. Obviously it's not the main strand of our economy but we neglect it at our peril.

 

[peteblue]

I see that the EU want us to pay about £50Bn to leave, while EU nations have underspent on NATO to the tune of over £500 BN and the UK has overspent by at least £50Bn. So we've been paying extra to protect them. I can see a deal here......