Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Joey66]

If you really believe I am objecting just on the grounds of the decision I despair.

Sure I don't want Brexit because it is economic suicide, but I have argued consistently about due process, the truth and those that are running the agenda who do not have the interests of the "man on the Clapham Omnibus".

The truth is that the referendum was offered on a false premise, the arguments were on a false premise, and the narrative since entirely false.

All of the above has been driven by and for a very narrow elite.

However going forward the most important aspect is that the people now charged (to be ratified by an Act of Parliament assuming the Supreme Court say so) actually have a clue as to what they are doing and the reasons for doing it. To date they have shown no evidence that know what they want, why they want it and how they're going to achieve it.

I'd have hated to be in your house when Everton got beat 5-o v Chelsea ours was bad enough you have to move on Esk!

 

[gorgeousgeorgeEFC]

Who in your mind are the establishment? Because from where I sit which is reasonably close to the establishment they are all delighted with the outcome.

There are a group of people who like me wish to remain in the EU but despite whatever wealth (or not) they may have they're not the real establishment.

Genuinely interested in who you think are the establishment.

I voted Remain and I am still gutted about the result of the referendum, but I do think "the establishment" was very much on the side of Remain. And by "the establishment" I mean the majority of Tory MPs, the majority of parliament as a whole, the Bank of England, Wall Street, the CBI, the Prime Minister...

 

[Joey66]

The establishment is never on the losing side. What you may see is a pyrrhic victory.

Labour had to back the vote the out vote in their strongholds was so strong you can,t commit Polictical suicicide against
your voters in the OUT areas of Labour strongholds!

 

[Joey66]

I voted Remain and I am still gutted about the result of the referendum, but I do think "the establishment" was very much on the side of Remain. And by "the establishment" I mean the majority of Tory MPs, the majority of parliament as a whole, the Bank of England, Wall Street, the CBI, the Prime Minister...

Spot on who is paying that nonesensical court case at the Supreme Court ?
It will not be a socialist millionaire!

 

[Joey66]

Who in your mind are the establishment? Because from where I sit which is reasonably close to the establishment they are all delighted with the outcome.

There are a group of people who like me wish to remain in the EU but despite whatever wealth (or not) they may have they're not the real establishment.

Genuinely interested in who you think are the establishment.

The very bankers who crashed the economy in 2008!

 

[The Esk]

Well, at least based on their utterances during the referendum - every living ex-Prime Minister, the vast majority of MPs, the vast majority of Peers, the vast majority of business leaders / senior executives, the vast majority of political journalists (and certainly most members of the commentariat), most of the senior levels of the armed forces and it seems most of the senior judiciary.

Interesting - you see I no longer see them as the elite, they may be establishment, but they're no longer in control (which is why they've complained so much). Control lies in the media and within the media a very small number of people, and it's those people who have run the agenda for many years, waiting for the opportunity to exploit. That opportunity was the referendum and the Mail, the Barclay twins and Murdoch seized their opportunity.

Therefore my argument that the weakness of the reasons for having a referendum, the weakness of those arguing for remaining (even though the arguments are totally sound), and the weakness for due process since, all because of the fear of losing the paymaster - the media.

The effectiveness of the democratic process is being destroyed on a daily basis. For years I thought the House of Lords to be a total anathema, yet only last week I met several members who put a compelling case for the value they offer especially when the Commons ceases to be an effective representative chamber, as is happening now.

 

[tsubaki]

The establishment is never on the losing side. What you may see is a pyrrhic victory.

Ultimately perhaps, but they demonstrably wanted to stay in the EU.

 

[Joey66]

Interesting - you see I no longer see them as the elite, they may be establishment, but they're no longer in control (which is why they've complained so much). Control lies in the media and within the media a very small number of people, and it's those people who have run the agenda for many years, waiting for the opportunity to exploit. That opportunity was the referendum and the Mail, the Barclay twins and Murdoch seized their opportunity.

Therefore my argument that the weakness of the reasons for having a referendum, the weakness of those arguing for remaining (even though the arguments are totally sound), and the weakness for due process since, all because of the fear of losing the paymaster - the media.

The effectiveness of the democratic process is being destroyed on a daily basis. For years I thought the House of Lords to be a total anathema, yet only last week I met several members who put a compelling case for the value they offer especially when the Commons ceases to be an effective representative chamber, as is happening now.

70.5million voted OUT , and no one buys papers much now it's the news and the worldwide web now Esk!

 

[dandydan]

70.5million voted OUT , and no one buys papers much now it's the news and the worldwide web now Esk!

70.5million? Were they postal votes in Labour strongholds?

 

[The Esk]

70.5million voted OUT , and no one buys papers much now it's the news and the worldwide web now Esk!

Who do you think controls TV, radio, and the major news websites Joey?

 

[Joey66]

70.5million? Were they postal votes in Labour strongholds?

Labour strongholds first vote in Sunderland it was downhill for the rest of the night for Remain!

 

[tsubaki]

The effectiveness of the democratic process is being destroyed on a daily basis. For years I thought the House of Lords to be a total anathema, yet only last week I met several members who put a compelling case for the value they offer especially when the Commons ceases to be an effective representative chamber, as is happening now.

That has been happening for ages, though. If you look at some of the things the Lords have booted out since 1997 their value as a brake on the idiocy of the Commons is clear for all to see.

(edit: correct link added)

 

[The Esk]

That has been happening for ages, though. If you look at some of the things the Lords have booted out since 1997 their value as a brake on the idiocy of the Commons is clear for all to see.

(edit: correct link added)

I agree, but that process and value is accelerating out of necessity - it will be interesting to see the role they play assuming Article 50 requires legislation and subsequently.

 

[The Cowboy]

I see people still don't understand what the case is about in the Supreme Court this week nor who the appallents are.

Haven't a clue on either tbh. I feel a bit like Dougal. 'what's going on?' 'Ted has a plan' 'no, I mean in general'

 

[Joey66]

Who do you think controls TV, radio, and the major news websites Joey?

You have choice I doubt that Murdoch holds the BBC to order it's a weak argument Esk look I was shocked when OUT won I voted OUT on the principle that twice before in my working life I had voted in not for a EU Polictical union where treaty's were added promised referendums never came thank god for Nigel Farage to force David Cameron for a chance to vote , and I am no UKIPER!
The people voted both sides told propaganda lies the vote has to be accepted the deal divorce will be messy , but Imfeel,we are getting out just in time!