Current Affairs Donald Trump POS: Judgement cometh and that right soon

[Clint Planet]

I must say I'm shocked that Pete is taking a contrary view and indulging in whataboutery rather than denouncing extreme right wing views.

Me too. Pete's jumped the shark.

 

[SteveSC]

Carried Nazi flags and symbols, gave Nazi salute, chanted Nazi maxims...they are Nazis. It took the German Nazis a while to get to the point of killing millions of people and plunging the world into war, but it started with one murder ...lost to history now maybe.

But here we are again. I prefer we stop it now before we get to "killing large numbers"

Exactly....

Sure, didn't the german nazis start of small too. They started out as a movement became a larger group. Then became political got elected, took power and started "cleansing" which led to them deciding doing it in their own country wasn't enough.....

They build enough traction and garner enough support then who knows...

 

[Clint Planet]

Exactly....

Sure, didn't the german nazis start of small too. They started out as a movement became a larger group. Then became political got elected, took power and started "cleansing" which led to them deciding doing it in their own country wasn't enough.....

They build enough traction and garner enough support then who knows...

I think Pete is having trouble absorbing how much less stylish these American Nazis are. And how much fatter.

 

[Fedlingen]

The problem is that people are using the word Nazis, without really understanding just what they were about. Your white supremacists or Black Activists are just scoring points off each other and now pulling down statues. Nazis actually killed people in large numbers and started WW2. Using this word to describe nutters in the USA is a gross over exaggeration and gives them a label that should really just be laughed at. They are a joke, unpleasant in the extreme, but a joke.

Violence from either left or right is just that, violence. They are the same people with a different goal, but anyone who believes that hitting another person promotes a political point should be locked up. The best attack upon the far right is to humiliate them, laugh at them, make them figures of fun and ridicule, but to engage in fighting just plays into their hands....

If you're caught waving a red flag with i swaztika, you're a nazi in my book. The problem right now is that it's difficult to attack and humiliate them, when they feel like one of their own is running the damn country. They think they're taking their country back, they haven't been prouder or louder in ages.

Right now a bigoted madman is running the USA and all white supremacists, nazi's, call them whatever are coming out from their basements. All of this because their stances are supported by the person holding the most powerful position in the world.

As long as Trump is president we will see more and more of this.

 

[Harryflashman]

Boy, I'm sure glad he has access to firearms.

So the incredibly well armed nazi who is well prepared and been training for violence is whimpering like a toddler whose been told off because the cops are after him .

The Master race in action .

 

[Fedlingen]

I think Pete is having trouble absorbing how much less stylish these American Nazis are. And how much fatter.

And how stupid, the hat ain't un-stylish, but wearing the 82nd airbornes hat, while doing a nazi salute is downright incredibly stupid. They were some of the first allied troops on the european mainland during the invasion of Normandy and Germany.

 

[Fedlingen]

So the incredibly well armed nazi who is well prepared and been training for violence is whimpering like a toddler whose been told off because the cops are after him .

The Master race in action .

Much easier to be stout and proud, when behind a keyboard.

 

[jal123]

And how stupid, the hat ain't un-stylish, but wearing the 82nd airbornes hat, while doing a nazi salute is downright incredibly stupid. They were some of the first allied troops on the european mainland during the invasion of Normandy and Germany.

And they're all raising the 'wrong' arm.

Cretins.

Of course certain posters will use that fact as 'proof' that they're not men who hold Nazi views.

 

[peteblue]

Carried Nazi flags and symbols, gave Nazi salute, chanted Nazi maxims...they are Nazis. It took the German Nazis a while to get to the point of killing millions of people and plunging the world into war, but it started with one murder ...lost to history now maybe.

But here we are again. I prefer we stop it now before we get to "killing large numbers"

Fair enough, but I have enough confidence in the American people to never allow this to happen........

 

[LinekersLegs]

I hear what you say, Links.

And agree with you for the most part.

It is just I still don't see how a statue of General Lee in a park in rural Virginia can be offensive to a resident of that town yet if he or she was to go to another part of the state to visit the grave of a grandfather whom died at, say Guadalcanal, then a memorial to the same fellow is not going to be offensive there.

Plus the Confederates did not fight and die for the United States of America.....they actually took up arms against it so strictly speaking Arlington is not the place for Confererate dead to be buried.

As you say yourself, he was responsible for leading an army which killed thousands of his own countrymen...how can such a man be immortalised among America's patriot dead?

As I understand it that is treason and treason still carries a death sentence for American citizens taking up arms against their own country.

That sacred place is supposed to be the last resting place for those who served under Stars and Stripes.

Either all statues to Confederate leaders are offensive and should be hauled down or none are and should remain standing IMO.

(my own view would be the statue has stood there for a century and serves as a reminder of an event which forged a nation ergo let it stand....it is not like some right wing pressure group is wanting to start erecting monuments to Lee, or Bedford Forest or Stonewall in the present day)

That to me is the linear conclusion.

And this opens up a whole nother angle.

Last fall I was in Charlotte NC for my niece's wedding and we were taken on a guided tour of that beautiful city.

The tour took in a graveyard where the city's Confederate fallen are buried and there is a monument which is on the tourist trail.

There must be hundreds of these Confederate memorials the length and breadth of Dixie.

Take the statues down because they cause offence and then we move on to other memorials.

That is all pretty ridiculous I know.

But IMO once you start nitpicking with one statue you end up on a slippery slope leading to God alone knows where.

I said in another post, this is all very Northern Irelandish....where people still take offence about events or speeches which happened a hundred years or more before their granny was born.

As to me saying I was always impressed by how Americans had moved on from the Civil War that is based on my own experience of living in the States for more than a decade and the Civil War was never contentious when discussed among my acquaintances.

Sadly, events over the past few days has disavowed me of that notion

Still.....I think one good thing to come out of this is that there is no possibility that Trump will get to run on 2020.

I bet he will bow out on "health grounds".

And roll on the mid terms in the fall of next year

For me it is history vs honouring

One set of them are set at contemporaneous places of an event (like a battlefield or a home) and are placed in a context where there is discussion about alternate points of view and statues to those with differing opinions. Whereas the statues in the middle of a town not related to that person are placed there specifically to honour that person because of their actions which in this case many find repulsive. So the very same statue could deliver a different message if it was in a museum vs in front of a town courthouse.

I also think you are underplaying the significance of when these statues were erected, including this one - they didn't just appear in a post racial environment as a nod to historu but at times where tensions were high and they stand as representative of those as much as the civil war.

To you they represent events and attitudes that are in the distant past - to a Charlottsville resident that has been stopped for the third time for the sole crime of driving whilst black and whose parent suffered under Jim Crow it probably feels significantly different. So why not let the residents of those towns make their own decisions?
I sure hope you are right about Trump though!

 

[Fedlingen]

Fair enough, but I have enough confidence in the American people to never allow this to happen........

Approval rating still over 30%.

 

[Harryflashman]

Approval rating still over 30%.

When he said he could shoot someone in main st and his base wouldn't desert him he really wasn't kidding .

 

[peteblue]

I must say I'm shocked that Pete is taking a contrary view and indulging in whataboutery rather than denouncing extreme right wing views.

That's not true....

 

[peteblue]

I think Pete is having trouble absorbing how much less stylish these American Nazis are. And how much fatter.

Fat unkempt Nazis, it'll never catch on.....

 

[LinekersLegs]

And how stupid, the hat ain't un-stylish, but wearing the 82nd airbornes hat, while doing a nazi salute is downright incredibly stupid. They were some of the first allied troops on the european mainland during the invasion of Normandy and Germany.

He got piped down nicely