Current Affairs Donald Trump POS: Judgement cometh and that right soon

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If you have no understanding nor opinion of the charges he faces why do you think it is partisan and tribalistic to charge him? What specifically should be changed to make it a “prettier sight?”

That’s a really difficult question because it now looks like Red states would not have charged him in the first place and even if prosecuted would have found him innocent. Blue states would form a queue to charge him and prosecute with an inevitable guilty result. That’s what I meant by partisan and tribalistic. Finding an impartial trial judge may have helped, and not one visibly aligned to the Democrats…..
 
That’s a really difficult question because it now looks like Red states would not have charged him in the first place and even if prosecuted would have found him innocent. Blue states would form a queue to charge him and prosecute with an inevitable guilty result. That’s what I meant by partisan and tribalistic. Finding an impartial trial judge may have helped, and not one visibly aligned to the Democrats…..

Think you have forgotten about Georgia
 
That’s a really difficult question because it now looks like Red states would not have charged him in the first place and even if prosecuted would have found him innocent. Blue states would form a queue to charge him and prosecute with an inevitable guilty result. That’s what I meant by partisan and tribalistic. Finding an impartial trial judge may have helped, and not one visibly aligned to the Democrats…..
It is New York Pete, there happen to be a lot of Democrats there. Perhaps Trump should have been more careful where he committed crimes? You know like when he held onto classified documents in Florida and got a judge who he appointed who is putting a very large thumb on the scale of that prosecution?

Or just stick to federal, rather than state, crimes where he can get a flag waving Supreme Court justice to weigh in?

And btw it was a jury of 12 of his peers that found him guilty, drawn from all walks of life including one who got all his news from “Truth Social”.
 
That’s a really difficult question because it now looks like Red states would not have charged him in the first place and even if prosecuted would have found him innocent. Blue states would form a queue to charge him and prosecute with an inevitable guilty result. That’s what I meant by partisan and tribalistic. Finding an impartial trial judge may have helped, and not one visibly aligned to the Democrats…..
I'm repeating myself but the red states' presumptive decisions to no-charge, and presumptive not-guilty verdicts if tried, would be every bit as nakedly partisan and tribalistic.

Even more so, when you consider that a grand jury composed of ordinary citizens ultimately decided to charge Trump, and a jury of ordinary citizens weighed the evidence and found him guilty. Now, the old line is that a prosecutor can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich,* and there is some truth to that. But it is certainly not true that a trial jury so easily convicts. Getting twelve ordinary citizens to unanimously agree that the prosecution proved each and every facet of the charges beyond a reasonable doubt - a threshold of certainty that you can roughly describe as 95%+ sure - and all twelve are needed for a conviction, 11-1 is a mistrial - is as good a hand-brake as you can get against government tyranny and politically motivated prosecutions.

the evidence was strong enough that most criminal defendants would have pleaded guilty to a lesser charge, which the prosecution would have offered in exchange for not having to try the case. He chose not to go that route. He wasn't obliged to. He had every right to seek total exoneration in court. He did. He had experienced and competent counsel. He had the opportunity to call whomever he wanted to call as witnesses and to present whatever evidence he chose to present. He had the opportunity to testify on his own behalf if he so chose, but the Fifth Amendment to the US Constitution, made applicable to state matters by the Fourteenth Amendment, forbids the prosecution from forcing him to incriminate himself, so he could not be compelled to testify. I don't do criminal trial work, but I do hearings of quasi-criminal matters. No attorney in his right mind EVER has his client testify because if the defendant testifies he can be cross-examined under oath on his testimony,. Since the prosecution has the burden of proof- the defense does not have to prove innocence, the defense does not have to affirmatively prove anything, it can offer evidence of a counter-narrative that defeats the prosecution's theory of the case if that's the best way to sow doubt in the jury's minds, but it's the prosecution that has to prove X, Y, and Z in order to sustain the conviction - so the defense has no duty, and the defendant has the right to decline from, putting the defendant on the stand to give the prosecution the rope with which to hang him. Despite the many reasons not to do so - and i would have told him not to, as his counsel- he had the right to get up there and tell his own story, subject to opening the door to cross-examination, if he so chose.

He chose to go to trial. Ordinary people heard the evidence. Some had voted for Trump. They convicted him. The system worked.

I'd be interested to know what should have been done differently.
 
I'm repeating myself but the red states' presumptive decisions to no-charge, and presumptive not-guilty verdicts if tried, would be every bit as nakedly partisan and tribalistic.

Even more so, when you consider that a grand jury composed of ordinary citizens ultimately decided to charge Trump, and a jury of ordinary citizens weighed the evidence and found him guilty. Now, the old line is that a prosecutor can get a grand jury to indict a ham sandwich,* and there is some truth to that. But it is certainly not true that a trial jury so easily convicts. Getting twelve ordinary citizens to unanimously agree that the prosecution proved each and every facet of the charges beyond a reasonable doubt - a threshold of certainty that you can roughly describe as 95%+ sure - and all twelve are needed for a conviction, 11-1 is a mistrial - is as good a hand-brake as you can get against government tyranny and politically motivated prosecutions.

the evidence was strong enough that most criminal defendants would have pleaded guilty to a lesser charge, which the prosecution would have offered in exchange for not having to try the case. He chose not to go that route. He wasn't obliged to. He had every right to seek total exoneration in court. He did. He had experienced and competent counsel. He had the opportunity to call whomever he wanted to call as witnesses and to present whatever evidence he chose to present. He had the opportunity to testify on his own behalf if he so chose, but the Fifth Amendment to the US Constitution, made applicable to state matters by the Fourteenth Amendment, forbids the prosecution from forcing him to incriminate himself, so he could not be compelled to testify. I don't do criminal trial work, but I do hearings of quasi-criminal matters. No attorney in his right mind EVER has his client testify because if the defendant testifies he can be cross-examined under oath on his testimony,. Since the prosecution has the burden of proof- the defense does not have to prove innocence, the defense does not have to affirmatively prove anything, it can offer evidence of a counter-narrative that defeats the prosecution's theory of the case if that's the best way to sow doubt in the jury's minds, but it's the prosecution that has to prove X, Y, and Z in order to sustain the conviction - so the defense has no duty, and the defendant has the right to decline from, putting the defendant on the stand to give the prosecution the rope with which to hang him. Despite the many reasons not to do so - and i would have told him not to, as his counsel- he had the right to get up there and tell his own story, subject to opening the door to cross-examination, if he so chose.

He chose to go to trial. Ordinary people heard the evidence. Some had voted for Trump. They convicted him. The system worked.

I'd be interested to know what should have been done differently.
great post, thanks!
 
A few years ago there was a really good BBC documentary, "People's Century" where they interviewed various people, ordinary citizens, who lived through seismic historical events.

I remember one woman saying that she went to a Nazi rally and for the life of her couldn't see what the appeal of Hitler was to her friends and classmates. As hard as she tried, she just couldn't see it. The voice, the histrionics and the in-plain sight desire to go to war.

Today my greatest nightmare is that I will one day have to appear on such a documentary and try to explain why people felt the need to defend Trump.

Like, where do you start? He's tall... I don't even think that's much of a quality. But that's all I've got.
 
I have never implied he is an innocent man and have absolutely no understanding nor opinion of whatever charges he faces. Prosecute by all means but for gods sake do it in a manner that doesn’t show up a partisan and tribalistic view of American justice. The eyes of the world are on this and it’s not a pretty sight…..
ah here, stop with all the 'I dont really pay any attention to American politics','I didnt want Trump to win'. You're telling more porkies than the man himself.
Having no understanding of the situation seem accurate tho.
 
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