Current Affairs Donald Trump POS: Judgement cometh and that right soon

[tsubaki]

I don't want to sound like I am agreeing with the daft person on here, and I think this is a point I think I made on the Prince Andrew and Weinstein / MeToo threads (so apologies for repeating it) but whatever the truth of these allegations is I think one thing everyone should be able to agree on is that allegations of rape should never be heard in civil court.

For a start, it is effectively decriminalizing the offence for a small number of people who can afford to effectively be fined for it if found guilty. Secondly it reinforces a lot of the myths that have been vomited here over the past two pages - that women are in it for the money and will band together to get it, that it is basically his word against hers and so any finding of fact is inherently untrustworthy, that women make these allegations out of revenge etc etc.

 

[Prevenger17]

I don't want to sound like I am agreeing with the daft person on here, and I think this is a point I think I made on the Prince Andrew and Weinstein / MeToo threads (so apologies for repeating it) but whatever the truth of these allegations is I think one thing everyone should be able to agree on is that allegations of rape should never be heard in civil court.

For a start, it is effectively decriminalizing the offence for a small number of people who can afford to effectively be fined for it if found guilty. Secondly it reinforces a lot of the myths that have been vomited here over the past two pages - that women are in it for the money and will band together to get it, that it is basically his word against hers and so any finding of fact is inherently untrustworthy, that women make these allegations out of revenge etc etc.

The issue is, civil court is usually the best place to get some form of justice/recognition of a crime as women are justifiably apprehensive about bringing a wealthy, powerful person to criminal court for obvious reasons.

 

[LinekersLegs]

I don't want to sound like I am agreeing with the daft person on here, and I think this is a point I think I made on the Prince Andrew and Weinstein / MeToo threads (so apologies for repeating it) but whatever the truth of these allegations is I think one thing everyone should be able to agree on is that allegations of rape should never be heard in civil court.

For a start, it is effectively decriminalizing the offence for a small number of people who can afford to effectively be fined for it if found guilty. Secondly it reinforces a lot of the myths that have been vomited here over the past two pages - that women are in it for the money and will band together to get it, that it is basically his word against hers and so any finding of fact is inherently untrustworthy, that women make these allegations out of revenge etc etc.

Strongly disagree.

There is an incredibly high bar that the evidence needs to be for prosecutors to bring a case of rape, especially for a wealthy accused.

Civil court is often the only legal avenue available to victims to get their case even heard. The difficulties in securing a conviction of Bill Cosby are somewhat illustrative of that.

In every other case where a person believes they are a victim of a person/company the civil courts are an alternate venue for some form of justice. Excluding only sexual assaults victims from this avenue would be unjust.

 

[MrPerfectNot]

22 allegations remember!!! and as far as I know not a single law enforcement investigation. It kinda suggests not a single complaint was made at the time to law enforcement. I'll say it once again, a lack of complaint doesn't prove these assaults didn't take place, but excuse me for being a bit suspicious about them.

OK, so, what is the % chance that each one of the 22 allegations is false, intentionally looking to screw over TFG. The overall rate of false accusations may hover somewhere between 2% and 10%, as this is very difficult to accurately determine. ( False Reporting Study). And you, worried about the toll on the famous celebrities and politicians through the ages, will state that you are sure the amount is higher. So let's go with that (and my projection of your response):

The chances of ALL of them being false is probably pretty small.....assume that for each of the allegations, there is at 25% chance of it being independently false (I'm being amazingly, overly and stupidly generous to you on this) - the chance of every single one of the 22 allegations being false is then 0.25^22, or approx 5.684e-12%. If you need to see it in starker terms, it's 0.00000000005684% (I think that's the correct # of 0's.)




That's just mucking with with you for the pure fun of it.

In truth, you're a misogynist and truly, willfully ignorant. And the ignorance is one of your better points.

And @linkerslegs stated it much more succicntly:

Finis.

 

[tsubaki]

Strongly disagree.

There is an incredibly high bar that the evidence needs to be for prosecutors to bring a case of rape, especially for a wealthy accused.

Civil court is often the only legal avenue available to victims to get their case even heard. The difficulties in securing a conviction of Bill Cosby are somewhat illustrative of that.

In every other case where a person believes they are a victim of a person/company the civil courts are an alternate venue for some form of justice. Excluding only sexual assaults victims from this avenue would be unjust.

Again though "alternate venue for some form of justice" is something that should worry everyone, if its applied to every criminal offence.

For harrassment and the very lowest-level sexual assaults, I agree some form of civil remedy should be considered where the victim supports it - however for serious assaults like rape, abductions or murder we cannot have a two-tier system of justice where the wealthy can pay a financial penalty when the rest face lengthy jail sentences. Saying that its more difficult to convict a wealthy person is a justification for improving the standard of and resources available to public prosecutors and the investigation of these offences, not for removing the sentences that the wealthy face if found guilty.

Otherwise we will (and are in the US) end up with an alternate system where victims of rape can be faced a choice of on the one hand with being dragged through the court process, possibly being publicly gone after by the media (as happened to Nafissatou Diallo and Ambra Guiterrez) and at best seeing the perp locked up, or on the other going down the civil route in the hope of getting compo or being paid to go away - something that isnt so far away from the NDAs that Weinstein and other abusers habitually use to cover up their crimes.

 

[Bishop Thumpety-Thump]

Really? A complaint to law enforcement within a few days might have helped these victims if that's what they were. I don't think I'm saying anything controversial.

That's because you're irretrievably stupid emir. I mean you even think that Jesus and dinosaurs coexisted.

 

[Harryflashman]

Yet another accuser who did not make a fuss at the time, no scratching at the attacker, no signs of a physical struggle, no heated shouting match for those nearby to hear. This doesn't prove her allegations false, just noteworthy that both appear to have left their supposed encounter without a sign of struggle. Also, no police report. I'm gonna go out on a limb here, make accusations against your attacker in good time. It's doing no-one a favour waiting 10, 20 or 30 years. Impossible to prove and hard to disprove after all that time.

You are disgusting

 

[dylsexicbleu]

Btw I notice when I brought up the allegations against Biden someone replied that Biden's accusers should go to the police with their accusations. Yet when I say exactly this about Trump's accusers I'm called disgusting and an sob. Weird.

 

[Harryflashman]

Btw I notice when I brought up the allegations against Biden someone replied that Biden's accusers should go to the police with their accusations. Yet when I say exactly this about Trump's accusers I'm called disgusting and a sob. Weird.

I called you disgusting because you specifically said that about survivors

Yet another accuser who did not make a fuss at the time, no scratching at the attacker, no signs of a physical struggle, no heated shouting match for those nearby to hear. This doesn't prove her allegations false, just noteworthy that both appear to have left their supposed encounter without a sign of struggle. Also, no police report. I'm gonna go out on a limb here, make accusations against your attacker in good time. It's doing no-one a favour waiting 10, 20 or 30 years. Impossible to prove and hard to disprove after all that time.

I’m not bothered if you’re talking about Biden , trump , Clinton anyone I’m not bothered . The comment you made is VILE , you know nothing about surviving the ordeal of sexual abuse either as a child or an adult . If you did you wouldn’t write any of that you’ve written .

I’m not here to argue for or against a politician I’m telling you your comments are dangerous and offensive. Just for a second park your bias and imagine being in that position or if you have no empathy do some reading . Educate yourself

 

[Bishop Thumpety-Thump]

Btw I notice when I brought up the allegations against Biden someone replied that Biden's accusers should go to the police with their accusations. Yet when I say exactly this about Trump's accusers I'm called disgusting and a sob. Weird.

Haven’t improved your comprehension since your ban, have you emir? I didn’t say Biden’s ACCUSERS should go to the police, I said that YOU should, if you really have the evidence to ‘go nuclear’ against him as you claimed.

Incidentally, do you still think it acceptable for one of your six hypothetical children to be gunned down at school so you can keep your AR-15/penis extension?

 

[dylsexicbleu]

Haven’t improved your comprehension since your ban, have you emir? I didn’t say Biden’s ACCUSERS should go to the police, I said that YOU should, if you really have the evidence to ‘go nuclear’ against him as you claimed.

Incidentally, do you still think it acceptable for one of your six hypothetical children to be gunned down at school so you can keep your AR-15/penis extension?

Sorry but I don't have possession of Ashley Biden's diary in which she seemingly makes the allegations.

Never owned a gun in my life, but as an non-American I do like the idea behind the 2nd amendment.

 

[Bishop Thumpety-Thump]

Sorry but I don't have possession of Ashley Biden's diary in which she seemingly makes the allegations.

Never owned a gun in my life, but as a non-American I do like the idea behind the 2nd amendment.

Why say you could ‘go nuclear’ on Biden then if you have no evidence?

Equally, why tell lies on a football forum, emir?

 

[dylsexicbleu]

Why say you could ‘go nuclear’ on Biden then if you have no evidence?

Equally, why tell lies on a football forum, emir?

Go nuclear in a football thread. I think that's what any reasonable person would have concluded from my post. Did you seriously think that by 'going nuclear' it meant that I personally was going to take down POTUS in a masterful legal, political and PR campaign? Sheesh.

 

[Rita_Poon]

Unleash the dinosaurs?

 

[dylsexicbleu]

Unleash the dinosaurs?

ad hominem capitulation