Current Affairs Donald Trump POS: Judgement cometh and that right soon

[SteveSC]

All due respect, asking the average American voter to read up about candidates and policy positions is folly. The hardcore of each side knows the various talking points on policy but a very, very large percentage of Americans are not hardcore and couldn't be asked to spend 10 minutes reading position papers or websites for details.

National campaigns are won on emotion and, IMO, this election isn't likely to be won by a Dem who can be branded (true or not) a big government Socialist. It's a giant turn-off for independents as well as Republicans who cannot stand the POTUS and might be swayed to switch sides (yes, they exist). The next time a candidate who espouses free college or elimination of student debt or Medicare for All actually turns out a large percentage of young (18-30) voters it will be the first. I simply do not believe in a wave of young idealists tipping an election. I'm certainly not going to bank on it happening on one of this level of importance.

The election has to be about one thing and one thing only. Removing the Cheeto stain from the White House. Period. Nothing else matters because anything Progressives may want to do on whatever pet issue cannot be accomplished with that idiot in power.

I've got friends on the ground in Iowa. None of them see the energy and passion behind a specific candidate as they did with Obama in 2008. It's troubling. Personally, I was waiting for a candidate to emerge before devoting time, money, energy in this race and I just don't see that person among those campaigning in Iowa. So I've just about made the decision to bite the bullet and get behind the one person who seems to have the career bona fides, gravitas, bankroll, focus and media savvy to win at the top of the ticket - Mike Bloomberg.

I may need to take an extra shower each day after writing that but if that's what it takes...

Pretty sure i said she was toeing party line so right now (the popular ideas that is) it seems like she comes across as a socialist. I said that its always the case that any candidate lies and says what they think people want to believe and what will make them popular.

If someone chooses not to dig further that's on them and quite frankly it's why we have Trump.

It seemed by what he typed @carolinablue232 was interested why some see her as a moderate. He seemed genuinely interested. So i suggested looking her up and what she has done in the past etc... I doubt he will ever vote for her anyway as he seemingly has already decided all but Biden on the left are socialists.

 

[carolinablue232]

Pretty sure i said she was toeing party line so right now (the popular ideas that is) it seems like she comes across as a socialist. I said that its always the case that any candidate lies and says what they think people want to believe and what will make them popular.

If someone chooses not to dig further that's on them and quite frankly it's why we have Trump.

It seemed by what he typed @carolinablue232 was interested why some see her as a moderate. He seemed genuinely interested. So i suggested looking her up and what she has done in the past etc... I doubt he will ever vote for her anyway as he seemingly has already decided all but Biden on the left are socialists.

A bit extreme there sir. Bernie, I absolutely think is too far out there for me to get on board, but the rest I’m open to. I just don’t think I’ve seen any of these moderate views that you’re claiming Warren has, especially when it comes to what she’s touting as her priorities.

 

[SteveSC]

A bit extreme there sir. Bernie, I absolutely think is too far out there for me to get on board, but the rest I’m open to. I just don’t think I’ve seen any of these moderate views that you’re claiming Warren has, especially when it comes to what she’s touting as her priorities.

Is it though?

You don't like Biden right?
Sanders is too far left
You don't trust Warren is a moderate. If you don't want to look up her past and won't see past her claims on her campaign website then i cannot help you.

These are likely to be the top 3. Unless Mayor Pete carries his Iowa momentum.

Would you vote for Mayor Pete? Alot of his policies are the same as are Yang's. Yang will not get too far nor will Steyer or any of the other remaining candidates.

Thing is of course they will be because some of what Warren and Sanders want give or take the specifics is what most progressives expect to be on their list of policies for progressives that is.

 

[carolinablue232]

Is it though?

You don't like Biden right?
Sanders is too far left
You don't trust Warren is a moderate. If you don't want to look up her past and won't see past her claims on her campaign website then i cannot help you.

These are likely to be the top 3. Unless Mayor Pete carries his Iowa momentum.

Would you vote for Mayor Pete? Alot of his policies are the same as are Yang's. Yang will not get too far nor will Steyer or any of the other remaining candidates.

Thing is of course they will be because some of what Warren and Sanders want give or take the specifics is what most progressives expect to be on their list of policies for progressives that is.

Who said I didn’t like Biden? I just think he’ll get wrecked on a debate stage. I also linked the politico site for Warrens current stances already and asked which you saw as moderate.

Also, it’s her job to convince voters, and if she spews extreme ideas and expects that not to stick to anyone except the extremists who want to hear it, that’s never going to happen.

 

[BlueTX]

Pretty sure i said she was toeing party line so right now (the popular ideas that is) it seems like she comes across as a socialist. I said that its always the case that any candidate lies and says what they think people want to believe and what will make them popular.

If someone chooses not to dig further that's on them and quite frankly it's why we have Trump.

It seemed by what he typed @carolinablue232 was interested why some see her as a moderate. He seemed genuinely interested. So i suggested looking her up and what she has done in the past etc... I doubt he will ever vote for her anyway as he seemingly has already decided all but Biden on the left are socialists.

Fair enough. I was really commenting on the bigger picture rather than the specific discussion between you and carolinablue.

 

[peteblue]

Pretty easy to deliver an impressive list of achievements when you aren’t burdened by trivial matters such as the truth.

Have the Democrats challenged what he said then ?.....

 

[peteblue]

If you want to preserve the glow, don't run it past a fact checker.

So have the Democrats demolished it then......

 

[Ruairi77]

Have the Democrats challenged what he said then ?.....

Yep

 

[Ruairi77]

So have the Democrats demolished it then......

Yep

 

[Charlie Sweet]

I wonder why Debra left ?

His neck is wider than his head?!

 

[the sniderman]

Have the Democrats challenged what he said then ?.....

they have but he is propped up by people who do not care for truth or ethics as long as they bigotry is empowered and they feel they are winning. know any of these people buddy??

 

[sdk]

So have the Democrats demolished it then......

Fact is a party unto itself.

 

[dead_soft]

So have the Democrats demolished it then......

Obviously much has been proven to be untrue. If you actually care to read (and, going by past debates with you, I doubt it) here's an easy summary https://www.nytimes.com/live/2020/fact-check-state-of-the-union-02-04

 

[Rook]

Great question. As I stated yesterday in the Democratic Noms thread:

"Yet Booker and Harris were bounced early. I have to agree with @tsubaki we really should have an "Obama-like" person to get behind right now, but instead we have an 80 year old socialist, a life long politician who can't string 2 sentences together, and a mayor of a mid-size town. There are only two that are currently hanging around that should given serious consideration, but one of them has the charisma of a lamp post.

So it's really just Warren then. And this is why, on top of ego, a guy like Bloomberg can sit back and say, ah what the hell, I've got two live cards in this family pot, deal me in.

I really liked Harris. I guess she had some smoking guns in her past as a DA but who cares. She was obviously intelligent, which has been so sorely lacking the last 3 years.

Honestly I don't know why the DNC doesn't just throw all their weight behind Adam Schiff and just command him to run, b/c no one is gonna be riding as high as he is right now among people that hate Trump and his ilk and will bring us back to governance by adulting."

It's frustrating. On the one hand I don't think Pete has a chance in the national election b/c he doesn't have enough experience. And god forbid, he's gay. I mean people are thinking that we aren't even ready for a woman President, so are we ready for a gay one? But all that aside, I mean look who's in the WH now, he had no experience and isn't even the least bit presidential. So who knows, anything is possible. He's moderate enough to win, for sure.

I think Bernie is too closely associated with "socialism" which people don't even understand what that really means, but it won't matter. It's a taboo word here, so I think he'll lose.

Warren is on the liberal side but she's whip-smart, and unlike Sanders the establishment does't hate her as much as Sanders. So that would be a possibility. She probably has my vote right now. I live in a state where none of this matters anyway b/c our primary is so late, but if it matters at all I'm leaning her way. Despite the fact I"m more of a moderate.

I just don't want Biden. Too old. A politician's politician. I fear it would be Hillary all over gain.

I"m still up in the air on Bloomberg. He's moderate. He may have too much center-right baggage to win the Democratic nomination. He's a billionaire that's not really likable. But one thing he has in spades is the STONES to take on Trump. He'd turn it into a New York brawl. Which would be fun to watch at least. I also think he's the one guy that could seriously get under Trump's skin. As we debated yesterday, that may not translate into any votes. But he wouldn't cower in the face of Trump. He'd bring Trumps game to him.

-Buttgeig, Biden and Bloomberg are all Obama-like.

-Booker was very moderate and wayyyyy too close to big bidness

-Harris talks a good game then gets elected to do something about it and does very little at best. Oh and speaking of smoking guns.

Harris’s office fought to release fewer prisoners, even after the US Supreme Court found that overcrowding in California prisons was so bad that it amounted to unconstitutional cruel and unusual punishment. At one point, her lawyers argued that the state couldn’t release some prisoners because it would deplete its pool for prison labor — but Harris quickly clarified that she was not aware her office was going with that argument until it was reported by media.

OK lets break this down, she's either lying or she's utterly incompetent. Your own staff is presenting a case to the Supreme @#%ing Court, and yea I know you are busy and all. However, this is not just something that happens every day and as chief lawyer of the state you have no idea what arguements will be used?

-Warren, I think she won't make any headway w/ Congress stonewalling. That being said she knows the financial/banking industry better than anyone. I think she could go a long way in fixing the bureaucracy in areas where it really really needs an overhaul (banking, investments, tax collection). plus she wouldn't need congress to do it, because the laws are already on the books, they are aren't enforced.

-Sanders is probably the best bet. He comes prepared w/ good answers to almost every question. Is not afraid to leave his blue state safe place to get his message out.

 

[Rook]

great posts guys.
I only became a US citizen 11 years ago. I had the benefit of going right through to masters level all paid for by the Irish tax payer.
In my personal case, I'm not sure the free education system makes sense as I'm no longer reinvesting in the Irish system.
But in general, free third level education was an incredible move in Ireland and changed the country for ever. Affording everyone the ability to get fully educated turned the country from an unskilled labour market to a tech and pharma hub. The tax intake from the new educated workforce far outstripped the cost of educating the population.
In the states, the way I see it, college should be considered 13 to 16 grade. In the 21st century, stopping at 12th grade seems arbitrary. And why bother going to the hassle and expense of means testing it. Should we means test families who want to send their kids to public high school? Why charge or means test for public under grad/trade school.
Anyone who's super wealthy are still gonna send their kids to private college. But if these private colleges see all their potential smart students going to free public schools, they'll be forced to be competitive. What's happening now is robbery.
When it comes to loan forgiveness, I can see why it might cause upset but there are proven facts that forgiving debt for most students would be beneficial to the economy. So either you are put out because you have cleared your loans (myself and my wife for her debt in this case) or you're put out because you just paid 250k for a liberal arts degree and next years graduating class get it for free.
Either way someone is going to get put out but there's no way around that but free public education right up to 16th grade is the right thing to do.

There are some simple fixes that could go a long way. 1st is just tying student loans to inflation would help trenendously. The fed govt could chip in a couple grand/semester which benefits all and can be say 50-60% of a community college tuition bill.

As far as admissions for any school, you want to donate millions to get your C- coke head american psycho of a son into a prestigous school fine. Its just a big chunk of that endowment can't be hoarded and has to go to tuition reduction for the middle class and more inclusivity. you can force even private (and public) schools to do this by tying federal grants for research and such to meeting benchmarks.