How Lindsey Graham Lost His Way
Lindsey Graham, the Senator from South Carolina, has gone from respected bipartisan Republican to blind Trump loyalist. What happened?
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www.rollingstone.com
So in your opinion propaganda = leave beating remain vote because of the media.
The problem with that is firstly that there was no media majority in favour of leave...
The TV Press: Channel 4, ITV, SKY and BBC are mildly or strongly in favour of remaining in the EU and the status quo.
The written press had more balance: 4 newspapers (Express, Daily Mail, Telegraph, The Sun) were for leave. 6 newspapers (The Guardian, The Independent, The Mirror, The Times, Huffington Post, New Statesman) were for remain.
When you now look at the readership of media in the UK over these years you claim this propaganda was spread:
So are you seriously telling us that media propaganda won this for Leave? That chart shows that the number of readers of the Sun (the most widely circulated newspaper) was only 3 million in 2010. I reckon it halved again between 2010 and 2016. We are talking about a smaller and smaller number of people this apparent 'propaganda' is influencing.
The Facebook stuff again is nonsense because every singly household received from the government a leaflet backing remain. Facebook in its wildest dreams gets to a fraction of people (and generally younger people who don't vote as much anyway). Assuming Facebook wins it for leave due to some dodgy Russian conspiracy is barmy.
On the other issue you raised that Hillary Clinton won the popular vote, well that may be interesting except it is not actually relevant because democracy operates within rules, processes and systems. The people and the politicians know those processes and systems before each vote.
longers
Parcheggia l'autobus
You dont need to buy a paper to be influenced by it, I’ve never bought the sun yet I see it’s headlines everyday on the way to work when walking past newsagents. You’re also assuming propaganda only exists in the print media, sites like the mail online pull in tens of millions of readers every single day. Then you have social media etc... it’s not the 1950s anymore, propaganda exists in many forms.
So the possibility of potentially seeing a newspaper headline wins it for leave (which is what Birkenhead Blue is arguing)?
Regarding the online newspaper sites. If they really were receiving tens of millions of readers, why would they even bother persisting with still printing newspapers? It wouldn't make economic sense. The reach of the online stuff is more likely to be people from other countries, probably ex pats (many of whom don't get to vote because they've been away from the UK for so long). I just don't see a cogent theory of how media could possibly have won it for leave, quite the opposite.
BirkenheadBlue
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your own graph shows that comfortably the two largest (and 4 of the top 5) were pro-Leave. Re: the websites and persisting with the printed issues - I’d imagine it’s because they capture different demographics.
So far as BBC etc - while they may have been theoretically (and arguably) pro-Remain they still had (as an example) Nigel Farage on the likes of QT more than any other individual politician. They even continued to do so AFTER the referendum, at a time when he should have been irrelevant. They also matched every pro-remain expert with one from Leave, even in fields such as economics where a 50/50 split is not even REMOTELY representative of overall opinion.
But the propaganda wasn’t solely from the media. Seen any interesting buses recently? Farage didn’t even make it to breakfast on results day before outright admitting that (which represented one of the major “building block” promises of the campaign) was nothing more than propaganda.
And yes democracy operates within rules... so now you’re saying not only is the voters’ judgement always infallible, but so are the structures within which those votes are cast. Interesting.
He doesn't think propaganda has ever worked and every election in history made the correct choice. I'm afraid you're writing too many words for Simple Toffee.
BirkenheadBlue
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My bad.
So it was Farage what won it?
The politician that has never been elected to the UK parliament in any constituency in which he's stood for over 30 years, yet he tipped the election for leave? The same man leading not the official leave campaign, but the minnow campaign that had a £10k spending limit? Farage won it because he appeared on Question Time, a TV show on so late I haven't watched it for 10 years and in which he is only one of what? Five or six people on a panel? How many times did he appear on it, once? Also, Farage was more influential than Cameron, the government, Labour, SNP, Lib Dems, Obama, CBI, Bank of England, World Bank, Macron, Merkel, British Aerospace, Rolls royce etc etc
There are bad theories and then there's some really strange ones. Farage, I like alot, a terrific performer and orator, someone that speaks their mind and is clearly highly intelligent, but to claim he won the election for leave is fantasy stuff.
As for the graph as I said in the post above, it's 10 years out of date. The numbers have likely dwindled massively since 2010. Again, they would be dwarfed for influence when you consider that every single household in the UK received a pamphlet from the Government in favour of the Remain campaign. So, if you raise the potential of a few million people, possibly seeing a newspaper headline or a tiny amount of Facebook viewers as being influential, then I'll raise you 60million people receiving an actual pamphlet for remain. Yet despite all of that they lost.
I'm still waiting for your reasoned analysis, young man. Has the cat got your tongue?
You should have a chat with Barry Rathbone on here mate, that would be a historic meeting of minds
summerisle
The rain, it raineth every day
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