Current Affairs Donald Trump POS: Judgement cometh and that right soon

Status
Not open for further replies.
Apologies, I did misread.

We’ll have to agree to disagree on whether Democrats concern about foreign interference is genuine. You can think that Russian 2016 interference was serious, and if repeated could affect elections in the future (for either side) but wasn’t what lost Hillary 2016.

Btw what does qualify to you as “election interference”? Is it solely ballot manipulation?

Make no mistake, I don't like Russia meddling in our elections or our affairs generally. The disconnect, I believe, is the idea that they somehow care about Donald Trump as an ally or in some ideological way. I think Russia wants to sow discontent, anger and mistrust in the US. And they're successful (with our help):

-Trump is a ridiculous person to be elected, so that helps their aim in some ways.
-Trump and Trump loyalists promote conspiracy theories which create animosity - that helps
-Anti-Trump fanatics promote conspiracy theories as well
-Trump's election enraged and weaponized media and academia to absolute bizarre levels of hysteria - which promotes Russia's goals by first creating unbridled hatred of a huge segment of the country among an influential class of Americans, and second by the response to that by citizens who both fairly and unfairly distrust academia/media
-Similarly, our institutions are undermined by a loathing of Trump which resulted in individuals in positions of power (FBI, etc.) seeking to undermine the President, as seen with the FISA abuse findings

BUT, my big caveat here is that almost all of this is enabled by us, and Russia is just pushing our buttons, so to speak. If Hillary gets elected, fine by Russia, Fox News will do the work that CNN and MSNBC are doing now. Republicans will dig up Watergate and Clinton Foundation misdeeds and divide the country, etc.

Sorry for the novel. My views can honestly be summed up with "we're not a unified country anymore on very much and there is little chance for escaping the current cycle of divide and vitriol as a result." The only caveat I have to that is that the Twitter class and you and me don't really represent most people, who just simply don't care very much. They want jobs and to be left alone, and if they can ignore the unbridgeable divides on guns and abortion and health care and free speech and religion and gender, etc., they're happy to wave the flag and act like we're all still largely on the same page.
 
Make no mistake, I don't like Russia meddling in our elections or our affairs generally. The disconnect, I believe, is the idea that they somehow care about Donald Trump as an ally or in some ideological way. I think Russia wants to sow discontent, anger and mistrust in the US. And they're successful (with our help):

-Trump is a ridiculous person to be elected, so that helps their aim in some ways.
-Trump and Trump loyalists promote conspiracy theories which create animosity - that helps
-Anti-Trump fanatics promote conspiracy theories as well
-Trump's election enraged and weaponized media and academia to absolute bizarre levels of hysteria - which promotes Russia's goals by first creating unbridled hatred of a huge segment of the country among an influential class of Americans, and second by the response to that by citizens who both fairly and unfairly distrust academia/media
-Similarly, our institutions are undermined by a loathing of Trump which resulted in individuals in positions of power (FBI, etc.) seeking to undermine the President, as seen with the FISA abuse findings

BUT, my big caveat here is that almost all of this is enabled by us, and Russia is just pushing our buttons, so to speak. If Hillary gets elected, fine by Russia, Fox News will do the work that CNN and MSNBC are doing now. Republicans will dig up Watergate and Clinton Foundation misdeeds and divide the country, etc.

Sorry for the novel. My views can honestly be summed up with "we're not a unified country anymore on very much and there is little chance for escaping the current cycle of divide and vitriol as a result." The only caveat I have to that is that the Twitter class and you and me don't really represent most people, who just simply don't care very much. They want jobs and to be left alone, and if they can ignore the unbridgeable divides on guns and abortion and health care and free speech and religion and gender, etc., they're happy to wave the flag and act like we're all still largely on the same page.
Agree with some of that, disagree with other bits. But am off to soak in the Ancelotti news and belatedly write some Christmas cards so will leave it there!
 
Without relitigating Russia, obstruction arose out of that debacle. Media went on endlessly about something that was shown not to be true, as did politicians on the left, and many are still ardently convinced of it despite neutral conclusions to the contrary. So while I'll credit your obstruction argument (though I disagree), that grew out of something that was, in large part, baseless.

I'm biased obviously, but my impression is that the general public consensus is that the Democrats were going to bring us to this moment regardless of the significance of the impropriety, and that what has ultimately gotten us here just isn't of much interest to them. And I think that's true. Basically, I think it's likely true the motives are corrupt even if the underpinnings of impeachment have merit.
It's a big country, the general public consensus around here is that Pelosi held off as long as she could before, constitutionally, Trump gave her no choice.
It's a foregone conclusion that Trump will survive the impeachment but the Democrats seem to think, and rightly so, that they have to be seen to be doing all they can to defend the integrity of the 2020 elections, especially given what transpired in 2016.
People have wanted Trump impeached since he took office because he's been giving valid reasons. From emoluments to obstruction and many different points in between. You just have to look at how many of his inner circle are currently serving time to understand why people might believe he's guilty of any number of crimes and want him impeached so he can answer to the charges.
 
It's fascinating to watch. How the Republicans to a man and woman are selfish careerists ignoring the blatant in front of their face, refusing to put country before themselves.
 
Make no mistake, I don't like Russia meddling in our elections or our affairs generally. The disconnect, I believe, is the idea that they somehow care about Donald Trump as an ally or in some ideological way. I think Russia wants to sow discontent, anger and mistrust in the US. And they're successful (with our help):
It's not ideological, unless the ideology is that Trump can be bought.
 
It's a foregone conclusion that Trump will survive the impeachment but the Democrats seem to think, and rightly so, that they have to be seen to be doing all they can to defend the integrity of the 2020 elections, especially given what transpired in 2016.

I think the question is for whom. Does the country at large want this or believe it's necessary/justified? We'll find out soon enough.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome

Join the Everton conversation today.
Fewer ads, full access, completely free.

🛒 Visit Shop

Support Grand Old Team by checking out our latest Everton gear!
Back
Top