Current Affairs Donald Trump POS: Judgement cometh and that right soon

[Big Fat Sam]

They tortured him to death.

Do a bit of reading before falling back to your default defend Trump stance.

No proof of that. Nobody knows for sure how he came to end up in that state. I am fully aware of their disgraceful human rights records by the way. I've read countless books and spent a week in North Korea.

When dealing with North Korea you have to be very, very smart in your negotiations and subtle in revealing your plans.

The Don has done a hundred times more than any previous US President when it comes to the DPRK, not least the repatriation of war victim remains. He's playing the long game. When was the last missile launch? When was the last time they threatened to obliterate the US? He's improved relations immeasurably, Kim is even meeting with other world leaders who are also pressuring him to abandon their nuclear plans.

North Korea is not a problem that can be solved in 2 or 3 or 5 years.

So?

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

No proof of that. Nobody knows for sure how he came to end up in that state. I am fully aware of their disgraceful human rights records by the way. I've read countless books and spent a week in North Korea.

Mate, your pro Trump japes are funny (ish) usually... but maybe try not to go full **** on a topic like this?

 

[Big Fat Sam]

Mate, your pro Trump japes are funny (ish) usually... but maybe try not to go full **** on a topic like this?

Less of the accusations please. If you show me the proof, I will happily back down and tell you I was misinformed and unaware that dsuch proof was out there. How hard can that be? As far as I was aware there was a medical examination in the US that was unable to determine the exact reasoning for his death/slipping into a coma, and it goes without saying that North Korea didn't reveal that he'd actually been doing while in detention over there.

Like I said, show me the proof, and I will agree with you on it! That's fair isn't it?

From the coroner:
"His body was found to be that of a "well-developed, well-nourished adult man" with several identifying marks and scars and some evidence of medical therapy, such as a catheter and a scar consistent with that of a tracheostomy. It also notes a "large pigmented scar" on the right foot,"

The examination, carried out by coroner Dr Gretel Stephens, lists the cause of death as brain damage from a lack of oxygen from an injury "more than a year prior to death." The manner of death is written as "undetermined."

The document also notes "the teeth are natural and in good repair" while eyes and nose show no signs of "remarkable alteration".

So there is my proof of no torture. Where is your more conclusion proof of him being tortured? And why would the US coroner lie? You're not going to claim Trump paid him off, are you?

Do you not think Trump's work with DPRK is a good thing? That's a yes or no answer, by the way.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

Less of the accusations please. If you show me the proof, I will happily back down and tell you I was misinformed and unaware that dsuch proof was out there. How hard can that be? As far as I was aware there was a medical examination in the US that was unable to determine the exact reasoning for his death/slipping into a coma, and it goes without saying that North Korea didn't reveal that he'd actually been doing while in detention over there.

Like I said, show me the proof, and I will agree with you on it! That's fair isn't it?

From the coroner:
"His body was found to be that of a "well-developed, well-nourished adult man" with several identifying marks and scars and some evidence of medical therapy, such as a catheter and a scar consistent with that of a tracheostomy. It also notes a "large pigmented scar" on the right foot,"

The examination, carried out by coroner Dr Gretel Stephens, lists the cause of death as brain damage from a lack of oxygen from an injury "more than a year prior to death." The manner of death is written as "undetermined."

The document also notes "the teeth are natural and in good repair" while eyes and nose show no signs of "remarkable alteration".

So there is my proof of no torture. Where is your more conclusion proof of him being tortured? And why would the US coroner lie? You're not going to claim Trump paid him off, are you?

Do you not think Trump's work with DPRK is a good thing? That's a yes or no answer, by the way.

You (conveniently, some might say) left out the bit where a neurologist showed that the North Koreans lied about his cause of death.

But I'm sure that was just an innocent mistake.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

And you can ask for a "yes or no" answer all you like- the actual answer is far more complex - as, funny enough, are most things when it comes to foreign relations with a hostile nuclear power!

But then Trump and his supporters generally aren't big fans of nuance (and with good cause)

 

[Big Fat Sam]

You (conveniently, some might say) left out the bit where a neurologist showed that the North Koreans lied about his cause of death.

But I'm sure that was just an innocent mistake.

What a pathetic response to my post.

Yes I am sure they lied about the cause of his death. They lie about everything. If he was tortured, would there not be, you know, signs of torture on his body?

As we have no proof (you're yet to provide me with proof, despite me proving proof that there was no physical signs of torture), how the hell can you claim he was tortured? You can't.

We don't know what happened to him. We can only speculate. I doubt he was doing intense physical labour for 14 hours a day like hundreds of thousands of North Koreans, but I also doubt he was afforded a comfortable life while in detention. The goal was to use him as a pawn to control the US, not to torture him to death, imo. You have your own opinion and that is fine.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

What a pathetic response to my post.

Yes I am sure they lied about the cause of his death. They lie about everything. If he was tortured, would there not be, you know, signs of torture on his body?

As we have no proof (you're yet to provide me with proof, despite me proving proof that there was no physical signs of torture), how the hell can you claim he was tortured? You can't.

We don't know what happened to him. We can only speculate. I doubt he was doing intense physical labour for 14 hours a day like hundreds of thousands of North Koreans, but I also doubt he was afforded a comfortable life while in detention. The goal was to use him as a pawn to control the US, not to torture him to death, imo. You have your own opinion and that is fine.

So if they bore no more sinister responsibility for his death, why exactly would they make up a story about botulism? A story which, by the way makes them look at the bare minimum incompetent - implies they're hiding something more.

And while there were no definitive signs of torture, there are plenty of methods that would not necessarily leave physical signs but which WOULD contribute to his actual cause of death - brain damage secondary to hypoxia.

 

[Big Fat Sam]

So if they bore no more sinister responsibility for his death, why exactly would they make up a story about botulism? A story which, by the way makes them look at the bare minimum incompetent - implies they're hiding something more.

And while there were no definitive signs of torture, there are plenty of methods that would not necessarily leave physical signs but which WOULD contribute to his actual cause of death - brain damage secondary to hypoxia.

They may very well be hiding something more! So what? What proof do you have to suggest they are hiding torture? It might be that, but we don't know for sure. We do know that his body displayed no signs of physical torture.

Can you post a reliable link here that conclusively shows that he was tortured and that was the cause of his death please.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

They may very well be hiding something more! So what? What proof do you have to suggest they are hiding torture? It might be that, but we don't know for sure. We do know that his body displayed no signs of physical torture.

Can you post a reliable link here that conclusively shows that he was tortured and that was the cause of his death please.

You know there isn’t such proof, but it’s not been disproven either, and given the country’s record of such acts (and the fact that a young, healthy guy ended up in a PVS shortly after being taken into custody) it’s hardly beyond the realms of possibility.

All of which is fairly irrelevant to overall picture regarding NK. But again, nuance not a big favourite eh?

 

[Big Fat Sam]

You know there isn’t such proof, but it’s not been disproven either, and given the country’s record of such acts (and the fact that a young, healthy guy ended up in a PVS shortly after being taken into custody) it’s hardly beyond the realms of possibility.

All of which is fairly irrelevant to overall picture regarding NK. But again, nuance not a big favourite eh?

No proof no argument. So stop the accusations if you've no substance to back up your claim of me chatting wham.

#bigwin

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

No proof no argument. So stop the accusations if you've no substance to back up your claim of me chatting wham.

#bigwin

Yeah, because it’s impossible to disagree about something in which neither side has proof.

lol

#nuance

 

[Big Fat Sam]

Yeah, because it’s impossible to disagree about something in which neither side has proof.

lol

#nuance

Coroners report vs "somebody said North Korea are dead naughty so it's obvious he was tortured".

Anyway, agree to disagree, Mr.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

Coroners report vs "somebody said North Korea are dead naughty so it's obvious he was tortured".

Anyway, agree to disagree, Mr.

“Somebody said”

Jesus wept.

 

[Big Fat Sam]

“Somebody said”

Jesus wept.

You're making me angry now. A perfectly reasonable argument presented by myself, ruined by your narrow-minded retorts and extreme lack of evidence to back up your own side of the argument. Very disappointing as you are usually able to give insightful contributions to most things in this thread. If you were a boxer the white towel would have been thrown in by your corner about four posts ago.

 

[BirkenheadBlue]

You're making me angry now. A perfectly reasonable argument presented by myself, ruined by your narrow-minded retorts and extreme lack of evidence to back up your own side of the argument. Very disappointing as you are usually able to give insightful contributions to most things in this thread. If you were a boxer the white towel would have been thrown in by your corner about four posts ago.

I’m quaking.

Run along now. I’m sure your mate will be tweeting some quasi-racism shortly that you can have some fun justifying