BirkenheadBlue
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Not nearly as confident of either of those things as you are. Or at least not that either of those things would be massively impacted by impeachment vs investigations
Current Affairs Donald Trump POS: Judgement cometh and that right soon
- Thread starter kithnou
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he's claiming the Mueller report as a victory but I don't see his poll numbers moving.
Pelosi's is the supposedly "safe" route. However, I'd argue that it is a politically winning and legally/morally/ethically totally justified to pursue impeachment.
The POTUS is compromised. If he were any regular Joe Citizen he would be indicted. Given everything we knew before, what we know today and what is coming via the 20+ additional investigations currently underway there's no question your father, your husband, your son or your neighbor would be frog-marched off to the penitentiary.
No man is truly free if some men are above the law and it is people like Donald Trump who rob you of your freedom, your liberty, your dignity. When does it stop? Only when men of good character say "enough".
Impeach him, show his taxes and financial records, hammer home how he both legally and illegally stole from tax payers.
Show how he intentionally profited from the office.
Show how he obstructed justice.
Show how his son, daughter, and son in law were all complicit in his greed for power.
If we cant jail him while he's president, have the feds standing by the moment he's booted out.
Now is not the time to be playing political chess.
BirkenheadBlue
Player Valuation: £70m
A definitive “not guilty” in the Senate would be easier to spin... if that would even be spin.
If there was even a 1% chance of conviction I’d be all for it, but it’s a 100% certainty that he’d be acquitted.
If impeachment isn't used now, it kinda dies as a tool of congress.
There's already tonnes of investigations.
I think congress have to impeach, regardless of what we think the result might be.
Not impeaching sets a more dangerous precedent than impeaching.
aannnd the house majority leader (hoyer) has just ruled impeachment out.
BirkenheadBlue
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I get that concern... The problem is that impeachment IS dead as a tool with the political landscape how it stands currently. There is nothing (short of MAYBE murdering someone) that would see Republicans convict Trump in the Senate.
The only way that changes is if the Republican Party returns to some level of sanity... and the only way THAT happens is for them to get flat out decimated at the ballot box.
Pelosi clearly doesn’t believe that impeachment right now helps accomplish that - and to give her her due, she’s rarely wrong about stuff like that.
BirkenheadBlue
Player Valuation: £70m
Don’t get me wrong by the way, he absolutely warrants impeachment and removal from office.
But I’m not convinced that there’s much point in the former when there’s a precisely zero percent chance of the latter.
But I’m not convinced that there’s much point in the former when there’s a precisely zero percent chance of the latter.
Can only imagine what's been redacted, what's come out is pretty damning. Barr is at massive professional risk surely.
I kinda see it as the duty of congress regardless of the possible outcome.
If an investigation finds the sitting president tried to obstruct justice 10 times, congress needs to impeach otherwise what's the point.
Two bits from the report I keep thinking about
“Although the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.”
“The President’s efforts to influence the investigation were mostly unsuccessful, but that is largely because the persons who surrounded the President declined to carry out orders or accede to his requests.”
So if the Russians try to influence 2020 in the same way as 2016 a) what has been changed that will make that harder b) will the President welcome it like he did last time c) who within the admin will decline to carry out any illegal orders as those that seemed to resist him to date have all left the admin?
“Although the investigation established that the Russian government perceived it would benefit from a Trump presidency and worked to secure that outcome, and that the Campaign expected it would benefit electorally from information stolen and released through Russian efforts, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities.”
“The President’s efforts to influence the investigation were mostly unsuccessful, but that is largely because the persons who surrounded the President declined to carry out orders or accede to his requests.”
So if the Russians try to influence 2020 in the same way as 2016 a) what has been changed that will make that harder b) will the President welcome it like he did last time c) who within the admin will decline to carry out any illegal orders as those that seemed to resist him to date have all left the admin?
this is a good thread
I think people are using conspiracy and collusion as the same thing. Collusion did occur...proof of conspiracy beyond a reaonable doubt was not established.
Collusion. Did. Happen.
Collusion. Did. Happen.
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