Current Affairs Donald Trump POS: Judgement cometh and that right soon

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ilikecheese said:
I wish I shared your optimism. His demonization of asylum seekers leads me to believe that he's fallen down the rabbit hole. Tucker is smiling.
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Talk about demonization. Did you see what he said about my tastes in beer? Come here and I'll take you both to my neighborhood brewery taproom, and we can all enjoy what we like. On a hot summer day, after working in the yard, there is nothing better than one of those watery brews. (my fave is the "champagne of beers") There's a time to sort out whether the hops are from Czech republic or Washington state, and that's not the time.

Here's what bothers me about the asylum seekers problem. A significant part of the world, though it lessens by degree, is a study in oppression and violence that sends a diaspora of wounded and suffering to the best place they can get to to relieve the hell that is their existence. Dealing with the people that land on your doorstep when you live in a destination country with a genuine rule of law is a process that needs to be structured, compassionate, and realistic. Do I think that Trump's plan is the only answer? No. Do I think that a system that allows all in, no questions asked, is the answer? No. There is a limit to what civilized nations can do, and there is a significant problem in dealing with that percentage of guests who commit crimes and fail to assimilate into your society. We will never arrive at a perfect solution, and I accept that. For one side the asylum seekers are the victims, for the other (Google "Angel mothers") the victims are those who are victimized by your victims. We are in a spiral of self-victimization that is reaching its denouement in the Smollet comedy we are currently experiencing. Why?

Victim status is the ultimate leverage in today's popular culture, news, and politics. Tucker doesn't give a fig about any of us. It's an entertainment medium. Same goes for Joe and Mika. They are only there so that you will see the commercial that follows. Those under thirty aren't watching cable, anyway.

The current political madness (and that's what it is) reflects our inability to reach any compromise to the benefit of our own set of victims. It is impossible to bring the subject up and talk reasonably to the left without being painted as the equivalent of the racist monomaniac who was planning his own Brevik moment, unless you yourself jump down the progressive rabbit hole and join in the circle dance. The same applies from those on the hard Trump right who will turn you into James Hodgkinson's enabler at a similar drop of the hat. Leveraging this for political advantage (both sides) is a cynical exercise for those who seek virtue points from their team members.

I'm not a dancer, that's why I'm in the band. Enjoy the warm embrace of the collective. Thanks to @abelard for at least this degree of kindness of thought.
 
mezzrow said:
Talk about demonization. Did you see what he said about my tastes in beer? Come here and I'll take you both to my neighborhood brewery taproom, and we can all enjoy what we like. On a hot summer day, after working in the yard, there is nothing better than one of those watery brews. (my fave is the "champagne of beers") There's a time to sort out whether the hops are from Czech republic or Washington state, and that's not the time.

Here's what bothers me about the asylum seekers problem. A significant part of the world, though it lessens by degree, is a study in oppression and violence that sends a diaspora of wounded and suffering to the best place they can get to to relieve the hell that is their existence. Dealing with the people that land on your doorstep when you live in a destination country with a genuine rule of law is a process that needs to be structured, compassionate, and realistic. Do I think that Trump's plan is the only answer? No. Do I think that a system that allows all in, no questions asked, is the answer? No. There is a limit to what civilized nations can do, and there is a significant problem in dealing with that percentage of guests who commit crimes and fail to assimilate into your society. We will never arrive at a perfect solution, and I accept that. For one side the asylum seekers are the victims, for the other (Google "Angel mothers") the victims are those who are victimized by your victims. We are in a spiral of self-victimization that is reaching its denouement in the Smollet comedy we are currently experiencing. Why?

Victim status is the ultimate leverage in today's popular culture, news, and politics. Tucker doesn't give a fig about any of us. It's an entertainment medium. Same goes for Joe and Mika. They are only there so that you will see the commercial that follows. Those under thirty aren't watching cable, anyway.

The current political madness (and that's what it is) reflects our inability to reach any compromise to the benefit of our own set of victims. It is impossible to bring the subject up and talk reasonably to the left without being painted as the equivalent of the racist monomaniac who was planning his own Brevik moment, unless you yourself jump down the progressive rabbit hole and join in the circle dance. The same applies from those on the hard Trump right who will turn you into James Hodgkinson's enabler at a similar drop of the hat. Leveraging this for political advantage (both sides) is a cynical exercise for those who seek virtue points from their team members.

I'm not a dancer, that's why I'm in the band. Enjoy the warm embrace of the collective. Thanks to @abelard for at least this degree of kindness of thought.
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I appreciate the response. It was thoughtful and not written in a code that I can't understand.

One has to ask though, why do you view asylum seekers as a problem? For me the problem is not those seeking asylum, rather the problem is why they felt the need to travel thousands of miles with only the cloths on their back to seek a better life, and then be faced with fear mongering anti-immigration folks here, when seeking asylum is perfectly legal. Asylum seekers are not the problem. Those demonizing them are.
 
ilikecheese said:
I appreciate the response. It was thoughtful and not written in a code that I can't understand.

One has to ask though, why do you view asylum seekers as a problem? For me the problem is not those seeking asylum, rather the problem is why they felt the need to travel thousands of miles with only the cloths on their back to seek a better life, and then be faced with fear mongering anti-immigration folks here, when seeking asylum is perfectly legal. Asylum seekers are not the problem. Those demonizing them are.
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I don't see seeking asylum as a problem, however I don't believe every person within these groups travelling towards the border is genuinely seeking asylum on legitimate grounds and/or has good intentions.

As such I believe a sufficient process should be followed by the destination country to ensure those legitimately seeking asylum are identified and those who aren't are dealt with and returned to their country of origin.

How this is best done, I'm not entirely sure. But I don't think thousands of people being accepted into communities without being vetted and their identity and claim of asylum verified is the right way.
 
Bluetooth said:
I don't see seeking asylum as a problem, however I don't believe every person within these groups travelling towards the border is genuinely seeking asylum on legitimate grounds and/or has good intentions.

As such I believe a sufficient process should be followed by the destination country to ensure those legitimately seeking asylum are identified and those who aren't are dealt with and returned to their country of origin.

How this is best done, I'm not entirely sure. But I don't think thousands of people being accepted into communities without being vetted and their identity and claim of asylum verified is the right way.
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But there is a formal application process already in place and vetting is done.
 
fair play on the reasoned response @mezzrow and you're only commenting on what was put to you.
But it's all just a distraction.
The captains of industry are throwing us scraps to keep us distracted while they reap what we sow.
The wall/asylum issue is one huge distraction and it's working. Some are seeing through it, this will be combated with cold war vilification tactics.
Conservative evangelical America have bought the supreme court and are relying on a false economy propped up by massive borrowing to keep power.
It's a very dangerous game being played but it's easier to play if Joe soap is busy fighting over a pointless wall.
 
Bluetooth said:
I don't see seeking asylum as a problem, however I don't believe every person within these groups travelling towards the border is genuinely seeking asylum on legitimate grounds and/or has good intentions.

As such I believe a sufficient process should be followed by the destination country to ensure those legitimately seeking asylum are identified and those who aren't are dealt with and returned to their country of origin.

How this is best done, I'm not entirely sure. But I don't think thousands of people being accepted into communities without being vetted and their identity and claim of asylum verified is the right way.
Click to expand...

Alright @toffy
 
mezzrow said:
Talk about demonization. Did you see what he said about my tastes in beer? Come here and I'll take you both to my neighborhood brewery taproom, and we can all enjoy what we like. On a hot summer day, after working in the yard, there is nothing better than one of those watery brews. (my fave is the "champagne of beers") There's a time to sort out whether the hops are from Czech republic or Washington state, and that's not the time.

Here's what bothers me about the asylum seekers problem. A significant part of the world, though it lessens by degree, is a study in oppression and violence that sends a diaspora of wounded and suffering to the best place they can get to to relieve the hell that is their existence. Dealing with the people that land on your doorstep when you live in a destination country with a genuine rule of law is a process that needs to be structured, compassionate, and realistic. Do I think that Trump's plan is the only answer? No. Do I think that a system that allows all in, no questions asked, is the answer? No. There is a limit to what civilized nations can do, and there is a significant problem in dealing with that percentage of guests who commit crimes and fail to assimilate into your society. We will never arrive at a perfect solution, and I accept that. For one side the asylum seekers are the victims, for the other (Google "Angel mothers") the victims are those who are victimized by your victims. We are in a spiral of self-victimization that is reaching its denouement in the Smollet comedy we are currently experiencing. Why?

Victim status is the ultimate leverage in today's popular culture, news, and politics. Tucker doesn't give a fig about any of us. It's an entertainment medium. Same goes for Joe and Mika. They are only there so that you will see the commercial that follows. Those under thirty aren't watching cable, anyway.

The current political madness (and that's what it is) reflects our inability to reach any compromise to the benefit of our own set of victims. It is impossible to bring the subject up and talk reasonably to the left without being painted as the equivalent of the racist monomaniac who was planning his own Brevik moment, unless you yourself jump down the progressive rabbit hole and join in the circle dance. The same applies from those on the hard Trump right who will turn you into James Hodgkinson's enabler at a similar drop of the hat. Leveraging this for political advantage (both sides) is a cynical exercise for those who seek virtue points from their team members.

I'm not a dancer, that's why I'm in the band. Enjoy the warm embrace of the collective. Thanks to @abelard for at least this degree of kindness of thought.
Click to expand...
With all due respect to the angel mothers, thousands of people are shot to death all across the US by native born Americans and stepping up and trying to tackle this problem instead of fear mongering about how evil asylum seekers are may very well have prevented them from losing their children as well. The fact that we are acting like our drug and gun problems are both immigrants fault and fixable by building a wall is ridiculous.

You also talk about assimilating into society. If you mean from a rule of law standpoint then I agree but I hope you aren't implying that it isn't acceptable for immigrants to speak their native language or eat native food or do other things that maybe aren't traditionally American. Because that's horse manure. If it isn't effecting the lives of others than you can do what you wish.
 
TheBigIguana said:
With all due respect to the angel mothers, thousands of people are shot to death all across the US by native born Americans and stepping up and trying to tackle this problem instead of fear mongering about how evil asylum seekers are may very well have prevented them from losing their children as well. The fact that we are acting like our drug and gun problems are both immigrants fault and fixable by building a wall is ridiculous.

You also talk about assimilating into society. If you mean from a rule of law standpoint then I agree but I hope you aren't implying that it isn't acceptable for immigrants to speak their native language or eat native food or do other things that maybe aren't traditionally American. Because that's horse manure. If it isn't effecting the lives of others than you can do what you wish.
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Yep, Angel Mothers have my sympathies, as does any mom/dad who has lost a child. But it is strange that this is somehow what gets emphasized by the Right rather than the 30000 needless gun deaths a year. I don't know Mezzrow's stance on guns though...

And again TO REPEAT: immigrants to this country have a lower background rate of violent crime than citizens. And yes, while immigrants can put a strain on local governments in generation 1, the net effect of immigration on this country over the long term has been beneficial.

And TO REPEAT: Trump has consistently engaged in racist, xenophobic lies to his base in order to whip up frenzied support for this pointless wall. (there are too many links to choose from to link here)
 
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