Current Affairs Donald Trump POS: Judgement cometh and that right soon

[MrPerfectNot]

That does not excuse their part in the tens/hundreds of thousands of innocent civilian deaths as a direct result of the US war on terror. I am not too sure what their "good intentions" are but any reasonable person would think twice about taking part.

I don't think any of them are looking to be excused from their role - when innocents are killed, those responsible often carry those scars with them for life. The members of the military I know (active and retired) have worked tirelessly to accomplish their assigned missions and avoid unnecessary destruction and injury to innocents. For those that have been involved in such (and I know some), it is a guilt and burden that they will carry and have to deal with until they die.

For many young men and women, armed services are a "way out" as others have said - for others, it is a calling to serve their country. Regardless, when they come together, they frequently do "heroic" things. The first that they do, frankly, is that they have voluntarily chosen to go in harm's way if ordered to do so - and that applies to every single one of them, from cook to SEAL, from fighter pilot to tank mechanic.

Also, @steveojcc identifies correctly that we need to do a much better job for our veterans - he is absolutely right.

 

[MrPerfectNot]

A tiny percentage actually do anything courageous, the rest, are backed by the best weaponary in the world and spend their time in base eating KFC and going on the occasional excursion. Of the 100'000s in their military how many actually deserve praise?
The main issue is the fact america puts far too much value in violence and in it's military, shoot first talk later. TO the rest of the world it is not heroic, honourable or even justified.

If life were star wars, they really are the dark side.

Yes, this is how the US (and its allies) have chosen to approach military conflict - let the weapons do the work instead of sending in untrained infantry to overrun an objective. It does give fewer opportunities and requires that fewer people have to do something "courageous". And more of them come home then.

Your observation that the US puts far too much value in violence "shoot first talk later" is one view. I know many diplomats who have served or are serving overseas in US embassies and consulates - the lengths and efforts they go to soas to provide aide and assistance to many countries is under-reported.

I am not a fan of our current President and believe that he represents a much more bellicose attitude than previous Presidents (of either party). So where American foreign policy ends up going in the future will be interesting to see.

 

[bol-uk]

I don't think any of them are looking to be excused from their role - when innocents are killed, those responsible often carry those scars with them for life. The members of the military I know (active and retired) have worked tirelessly to accomplish their assigned missions and avoid unnecessary destruction and injury to innocents. For those that have been involved in such (and I know some), it is a guilt and burden that they will carry and have to deal with until they die.

For many young men and women, armed services are a "way out" as others have said - for others, it is a calling to serve their country. Regardless, when they come together, they frequently do "heroic" things. The first that they do, frankly, is that they have voluntarily chosen to go in harm's way if ordered to do so - and that applies to every single one of them, from cook to SEAL, from fighter pilot to tank mechanic.

Also, @steveojcc identifies correctly that we need to do a much better job for our veterans - he is absolutely right.

Nothing impresses me less than someone joining the military. Teach, nurse, volunteer, be a role model, THAT is impressive, joining a war machine just isn’t, and then to bowl
Around town in your uniform looking for praise when you get home, no chance.

 

[DanEFC92]

 

[bol-uk]

Yes, this is how the US (and its allies) have chosen to approach military conflict - let the weapons do the work instead of sending in untrained infantry to overrun an objective. It does give fewer opportunities and requires that fewer people have to do something "courageous". And more of them come home then.

Your observation that the US puts far too much value in violence "shoot first talk later" is one view. I know many diplomats who have served or are serving overseas in US embassies and consulates - the lengths and efforts they go to soas to provide aide and assistance to many countries is under-reported.

I am not a fan of our current President and believe that he represents a much more bellicose attitude than previous Presidents (of either party). So where American foreign policy ends up going in the future will be interesting to see.

Totally hear you here. I know i generalise about the us military, I guess as a Brit we just don’t have nesrotge same obsession with ours.

 

[MrPerfectNot]

Nothing impresses me less than someone joining the military. Teach, nurse, volunteer, be a role model, THAT is impressive, joining a war machine just isn’t, and then to bowl
Around town in your uniform looking for praise when you get home, no chance.

re emphasized text, agreed - poor behavior at best.

 

[Ruairi77]

Nothing impresses me less than someone joining the military. Teach, nurse, volunteer, be a role model, THAT is impressive,

If you want to teach or be a nurse you need to go in to a lot of debt to get qualified. Or you could join the army and they'll pay and train you to be a teacher or nurse.
I do think the term 'hero' should not be a catch all for everybody in the military but there are definitely heroes in the military.
<checks thread to see how we got on to this>

 

[abelard]

Not an exaggeration, you say?

Lynching, carpet-bombing at least 2 million Vietnamese peasants into vapour, building an entire economy around kidnapping people, cramming them into ships, then working them to death.... or, the President is dull and lazy

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[DanEFC92]

Not an exaggeration, you say?

Lynching, carpet-bombing approx. 2 million Vietnamese peasants into vapour, building an entire economy around kidnapping people, cramming them into ships, then working them to death.... or, the President is dull and lazy

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Just hyperbole. And sad in the pathetic sense. It is pretty sad.

Was amused by the second tweet (the one I linked).

 

[TheBigIguana]

Fair enough but they certainly are not heroes. Doing the dirty work for the american war machine.

You won't find many Americans who will go after the individual soldiers even if they disagree with what is being done. For example not many people who hated the Iraq war condemn those who went to Iraq and fought. It just isn't what we do. It happened a bit in the 1960s with Vietnam but as far as I know that attitude is mostly gone today.

 

[SteveSC]

A tiny percentage actually do anything courageous, the rest, are backed by the best weaponary in the world and spend their time in base eating KFC and going on the occasional excursion. Of the 100'000s in their military how many actually deserve praise?
The main issue is the fact america puts far too much value in violence and in it's military, shoot first talk later. TO the rest of the world it is not heroic, honourable or even justified.

If life were star wars, they really are the dark side.

I don't disagree with you like i said i don't see all of them as heroes,not at all.

I was simply pointing out the reason some do call some of them heroes and why they have the upmost respect for them and the situation alot of them are in and why they sign up.

I think this country could do a lot more for its troops and treat them better instead of giving them false praise and thanking them.

A friend of mine was shot dead by a cop (an ex marine)who was later diagnosed with PTSD and put on administrative leave by the force. My friend himself was a veteran with PTSD.

He went at him with a knife and lost his life. The cop was obviously excused and it was justifiable but many believed as he was armed with a taser and night stick he could have disabled him but alas thats not their training.

The cop got into trouble later on in his career and was put on admin leave for mental health issues.

 

[LinekersLegs]

Such a smooth, well oiled administration...

 

[abelard]

Just hyperbole. And sad in the pathetic sense. It is pretty sad.

Was amused by the second tweet (the one I linked).

soz, wasn't trying to pick on you

 

[bol-uk]

I don't disagree with you like i said i don't see all of them as heroes,not at all.

I was simply pointing out the reason some do call some of them heroes and why they have the upmost respect for them and the situation alot of them are in and why they sign up.

I think this country could do a lot more for its troops and treat them better instead of giving them false praise and thanking them.

A friend of mine was shot dead by a cop (an ex marine)who was later diagnosed with PTSD and put on administrative leave by the force. My friend himself was a veteran with PTSD.

He went at him with a knife and lost his life. The cop was obviously excused and it was justifiable but many believed as he was armed with a taser and night stick he could have disabled him but alas thats not their training.

The cop got into trouble later on in his career and was put on admin leave for mental health issues.

I do agree with this. You seem to have a good (sensible) out look on it all really.

 

[bol-uk]

If you want to teach or be a nurse you need to go in to a lot of debt to get qualified. Or you could join the army and they'll pay and train you to be a teacher or nurse.
I do think the term 'hero' should not be a catch all for everybody in the military but there are definitely heroes in the military.
<checks thread to see how we got on to this>

I was wandering this too!