Well done Donald for not following through when you farted there!
Current Affairs Donald Trump POS: Judgement cometh and that right soon
- Thread starter kithnou
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peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
It will work against them, they have thrown that much crap at him that it no longer even registers with most people. There is no longer any ‘shock’. His enemies have actually built a large defensive wall all around him, from which he will benefit. Come the next election, unless he shoots his wife and wipes his arse on the Stars and Stripes in Times Square, he can pretty well get away with anything because the incessant abuse of him just will not stand out.......
OK Pete, perhaps you can explain why his detractors should be enthused by this proposed meeting with Kim - what is it we are missing?
And what metrics should we use to judge its success/failure - define for us what you think are fair and reasonable expectations.
Quite an incredible watch that.
Certainly discredits the argument that he's making this all up as he goes along. 19 years ago this was. And I think what he said here was largely right. Gonna be interesting how this develops with Kim.
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
Trump has everything to lose by having the meeting, which is why no previous President has done so. Undoubtedly both China and Russia have pushed Kim in this respect, they really don’t want potential nuclear bombs going off near their territories nor giving the USA an excuse for having a massive presence in the region. But, and it is a big but, if Trump can convince the guy that he’s not going to let them have nukes and can reassure him regarding his countries self preservation then it may all end very peacefully, a win win for all. However if Kim just takes the mick, which would embarrass the USA for a short period, then he will know that Trump will go bananas and even worse, China and Russia will withdraw their support. You yourself have said jaw-jaw is better than war-war.
In terms of metrics, it’s about closing down his nuclear programme, dismantling any existing nukes and missiles. If Kim is allowed to keep everything then it has failed, but if he does a deal........
Well the fact they appear to be willing to meet at the negotiation table. When was the last time this occurred ?
Whether it eventuates is to be seen, however with such international exposure been directed here I believe they'll meet and something positive will happen.
The pressure that's been applied through the sanctions and Trump managing to involve China to some extent looks as though the NK regime is starting to understand where it's place rightly is in the world.
Trump's had more success with the NK regime in 18 months than all the other Presidents combined in the last 20 years.
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
Not yet he hasn’t, but he’s on the right path.......
And I thought I was hard to please, convincing Kim to give up all his weapons after just one meeting seems a hell of an ask to me! What do you think should be on the table in trade - sanctions relief, withdrawl of US troops from S Korea??
Personally I'd believe Trump would have done an excellent job if all he got an agreement to freeze further development (confirmed by inspections) in exchange for some food shipments.
I think where we differ is I believe that NK would have come to the negotiation table with any president who had offered to meet personally as it is something they have long desired and I don't believe that a temporary halt in test flights is anywhere close to an equal trade in exchange whereas if I understand you correctly you think it is. In Trump parlance it isn't that I didn't want a deal, I just think this initial one is a poor one.
Pete and I have stated what we think would be successful outcomes, perhaps you could be a bit more explicit in what "something positive will happen" means? I think we all agree that if things go back to where they were a week ago the meeting can be counted as a failure but just trying to figure out ahead of time what is a "meh, not bad but not great" outcome and what is a "good" result.
Well I think the NK regimes desire for nuclear weapons may dissolve following talks dependent on what they receive in exchange. That could be a relief in sanction, removal of US troops as mentioned or something else related to China and their involvement in sanctions particularly regarding oil, coal or imports and financial restrictions via Chinese banks.
Collectively the last 12-18months I believe is having the desired effect on NK by isolating them from the rest of the world, and more importantly from their close allies. However minor the actions of China seem overall. At the end of the day the vast majority of NK exports are with China therefore the longer China are on board the tougher it gets for NK.
Furthermore NK may view the opportunity to trade with a wider group of nation's other than China and Russia as worthwhile in exchange for halting their nuclear exchanges.
As with much going on at the moment though it's speculation until the meeting happens I guess. Nevertheless you've got to start somewhere
dandydan
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It's called Trump derangement syndrome.
Well the right flipped out when Obama wore a tan suit and when he got dijon mustard on a burger....so there's that.
Not to mention all of the other ways they tried to deligitimize his election. Birther much?
Imagine if Obama didn't share his tax returns, paid a porn star off to cover up an affair with a porn star, had an immigrant wife, had kids from three different baby mama's...just to name a few.
orly
Please check with me for Blammo criteria
Withdrawal of troops from South Korea would be met positively on both sides of the border.
dandydan
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#TOPLAD
Ron Swanson
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The reason no president has met with NK before is that it legitimises the regime. It gives NK the thing that they want the most - the prestige and propaganda of sitting down with the POTUS. By meeting KJU, Trump is giving him equal status as a state leader. When Clinton was president he was smart enough to send an envoy to find out what deal was on the table before deciding to decline NK's invitation.
Just look at how the White House is trying to walk back on what Trump said. The press briefing yesterday added all sorts of caveats to a meeting taking place, which essentially adds up to what every administration before has said. Trump, as usual, jumped the gun and shot his mouth off after NK offered a meeting. Does the US even have an ambassador on the Korean peninsula right now?!
Obama, who was generally the most open president towards meeting old foes said of NK: "Since I came into office, the one thing I was clear about was, we're not going to reward this kind of provocative behaviour. You don't get to bang your spoon on the table and somehow you get your way."
Just look at how the White House is trying to walk back on what Trump said. The press briefing yesterday added all sorts of caveats to a meeting taking place, which essentially adds up to what every administration before has said. Trump, as usual, jumped the gun and shot his mouth off after NK offered a meeting. Does the US even have an ambassador on the Korean peninsula right now?!
Obama, who was generally the most open president towards meeting old foes said of NK: "Since I came into office, the one thing I was clear about was, we're not going to reward this kind of provocative behaviour. You don't get to bang your spoon on the table and somehow you get your way."
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