Donald Trump for President Thread

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I don't know the circumstances so can't comment on that, but I will say that learning isn't some kind of passive activity over which you have no input, so if you don't want to work in a call centre, learn new skills that allow you to do something else.

A clarion call to what remains of the UK's skilled workforce, I don't think.

Well in Bruce - you've showed everyone what you're about. You've visibly demonstrated that you're not arsed about skilled jobs being lost abroad.

Get yerself an education kids...You're gonna need that degree in street sweeping. It might come in handy at the recycling plant as well.
 
Seems to be the west is turning into quite a laughable situation now.

those who protest the right way and use their voice/vote to protest what the establishment want.

And those in the minority who decide to protest physically when the result doesn't go their way.
 
I can see many folks with the best of intentions attempting to sort something that is still inconceivable within the framework of the intellectual map you have on board to measure the events of the last 48 hours. There are a couple of us who do not sing out of the same hymnal that love the people here and want to share viewpoints that help make things make more sense. This is posted in that effort. We could drill down and battle over various points of the below, but frankly, some of us are tired of getting beat up over it. When we walk away is when you should prepare for what's coming next, as it won't be from us.

With that said, I recommend you read the following. With respect, from my sensei:

It's important to see the failed 2016 Clinton presidential campaign in terms of intelligence failure because the same could happen to anyone. It could for example happen to the US armed forces when least expected. Therefore it's important to examine how such failures occur in order to avoid finishing up like Hillary in the recently concluded election: the sure winner one day who 12 hours later was the abject loser.

The question of how such an overwhelming political force could lose so badly when every one of its indicators predicted success was raised by Jim Newell of Slate. "I think of the lawmakers, the consultants, the operatives, and—yes—the center-left media, and how everything said over the past few years leading up to this night was bulls**t." The BS assured them they were on the verge of annihilating the Deplorables. A few dizzying hours later the predicted disaster had happened -- but to them.

The Democrats will now control next to nothing above the municipal level. Donald Trump will be president. We are going to be unpacking this night for the rest of our lives, and lives beyond that. We can’t comprehend even 1 percent of what’s just happened. But one aspect of it, minor in the overall sweep, that I’m pretty sure we can comprehend well enough right now: The Democratic Party establishment has beclowned itself and is finished.

One reason for the failure identified by Newell was that Hillary's analysts became invested in their own predictions. "Theoretically smart people in the Democratic Party ... worked giddily to clear the field for her. Every power-hungry young Democrat fresh out of law school, every rising lawmaker, every old friend of the Clintons wanted a piece of the action. This was their ride up the power chain." They predicted they would do well. Of course they would predict that.

Other "gains" ultimately proved poisoned pawns. The corruption of the mainstream media did nothing more than open the doors to disaster. By turning the MSM into an adjunct of the progressive cause they stilled the last voices that would tell them the truth. By election day there was no one left to warn them and bam! they walked right into it.

There is one other factor implied in the Newell piece which he neglects to develop. The campaign models became the data themselves. The indicators became the inputs and whole apparatus self-referentially detached itself from reality. The progressive "demographic model" (which models identity politics) constrained what the Hillary campaign could conceive. The reason progressive politics is about race is their models are about race. With only such a limited vocabulary there were some ideas the model could simply not express. They were unsayable. Newell doesn't even know how to begin to formulate the problem in this limited language.

It may still be true that in the long term, Republicans can’t win with their demographics, but we found out Tuesday that the long term is still pretty far away. Democrats have to win more white voters. They have to do so in a way that doesn’t erode the anti-racist or anti-sexist planks of the modern party, which are non-negotiable. If only there were a model for this. There was no model for prosperous non-hyphenated America because their model prepended everything with the hyphen that was assigned.

The identity politics model was essentially a promise machine which calculated how many votes could be obtained by appealing to a given population segment. Plug in the variables: cisgendered, black, college educated etc and out comes a "message" with its estimated yield in votes. Hillary was the end point of this political sausage making machine. According to their demographic model Hillary had enough messages to conquer the world.

Unfortunately messages were not reality. "Between the idea and the reality, between the motion and the act falls the Shadow," as TS Eliot once put it. There were plenty of shadows. Whatever its utility the Promise Machine might have been for campaigning it did nothing to deliver. People who did not think of themselves in racial terms 24x7 started noticing things going downhill. These parts of them lived outside the model.

They lived in an America -- the everyday America -- that the model had written off. But the progressive machine could not notice. All it did was constrain common sense policy to the point where governance became impossible, foreign policy itself became untenable without running afoul of some promise created by the model.

The more the Promise Machine cranked out the worse governance became. It was as if the Hillary campaign were gaming their moves against themselves rather than contra the actual foe, which is Reality. As such they were ace in their synthetic world but s**t outside of it. They were 'historic' in their own universe but losers outside of it.

The seeds for an intelligence failure of monumental proportions were sown. Right on schedule they gulled themselves over a cliff.

The the way to avoid such failures is simple -- but hard. The lesson is this. Don't try to take over the intellectual world. Don't try to create an echo chamber or Promise Machine. Don't try to homogenize the Narrative. These lessons are important to grasp if America is not to lose to some apparently weak foe. Romans knew how powerful a toxin self-deception could be, as did some Hollywood screenwriters; at least the ones who scripted the 1970 movie Patton, which ends with the title character thinking these thoughts:

“For over a thousand years Roman conquerors returning from the wars enjoyed the honor of triumph, a tumultuous parade. In the procession came trumpeters, musicians and strange animals from conquered territories, together with carts laden with treasure and captured armaments. The conquerors rode in a triumphal chariot, the dazed prisoners walking in chains before him. Sometimes his children robed in white stood with him in the chariot or rode the trace horses. A slave stood behind the conqueror holding a golden crown and whispering in his ear a warning: that all glory is fleeting.

Don't listen just to the musicians. Heed also the slave. Do not silence the critics. All glory is fleeting.



That was some post, Mezz
 
A clarion call to what remains of the UK's skilled workforce, I don't think.

Well in Bruce - you've showed everyone what you're about. You've visibly demonstrated that you're not arsed about skilled jobs being lost abroad.

Get yerself an education kids...You're gonna need that degree in street sweeping. It might come in handy at the recycling plant as well.

See, you take something that I write and spin it in your own acerbic way. I suggest you take it up with Sir Mark Walport as he and his department wrote the report I referenced (or the UN, or the Science and Technology Select Committee, or Deloitte, or Oxford University, or any of a huge number of organisations that have studied the same thing with largely the same conclusion).

Bruce, its not really as simple as learning new skills and you'll be right particularly the older you are.

The alternative is trying to stop change from happening, and I don't think that's wise, nor possible. I haven't said it's easy, far from it, but it is necessary.
 
Seems to be the west is turning into quite a laughable situation now.

those who protest the right way and use their voice/vote to protest what the establishment want.

And those in the minority who decide to protest physically when the result doesn't go their way.

Do you honestly think we'd have seen mild acceptance of results if they'd been reversed ? On Brexit Farage stated clearly he'd campaign for a second referendum if it'd been a narrow remain victory but to talk specifically on Trump and his sides acceptance of the result . Here are a few Trump supporter quotes pre-election that do maybe indicate it wouldn't have been happily accepted :

“People are going to march on the capitols,” Jared Halbrook, 25, told the New York Times. “They’re going to do whatever needs to be done to get her out of office, because she does not belong there.”

“One of the things that I can tell you that a lot of us are scared of is this voter fraud. There’s a lot of out here saying that when we vote, we’re going to wear red. Our lives depend on this election. Our kids’ futures depend on this election. For me personally, if Hillary Clinton gets in, I myself am ready for a revolution,”


Another Trump voter, Dan Bowman, told the Boston Globe: “If she’s in office, I hope we can start a coup. She should be in prison or shot. That’s how I feel about it. "

“We’re going to have a revolution and take them out of office if that’s what it takes. There’s going to be a lot of bloodshed. But that’s what it’s going to take... I would do whatever I can for my country.”
 
interesting that younger people mainly voted dem, maybe as they are used to the change in employment prospects so have less of an axe to grind?
 
interestingly for many young people the thought of working in a steel factory, mill, mine whatever is probably not that attractive and they did it cos thats what everyone else has done, maybe to them working in a call centre or whatever is no worse...
 
Do you honestly think we'd have seen mild acceptance of results if they'd been reversed ? On Brexit Farage stated clearly he'd campaign for a second referendum if it'd been a narrow remain victory but to talk specifically on Trump and his sides acceptance of the result . Here are a few Trump supporter quotes pre-election that do maybe indicate it wouldn't have been happily accepted :

“People are going to march on the capitols,” Jared Halbrook, 25, told the New York Times. “They’re going to do whatever needs to be done to get her out of office, because she does not belong there.”

“One of the things that I can tell you that a lot of us are scared of is this voter fraud. There’s a lot of out here saying that when we vote, we’re going to wear red. Our lives depend on this election. Our kids’ futures depend on this election. For me personally, if Hillary Clinton gets in, I myself am ready for a revolution,”


Another Trump voter, Dan Bowman, told the Boston Globe: “If she’s in office, I hope we can start a coup. She should be in prison or shot. That’s how I feel about it. "

“We’re going to have a revolution and take them out of office if that’s what it takes. There’s going to be a lot of bloodshed. But that’s what it’s going to take... I would do whatever I can for my country.”
fair point.

but whether it would have happened? Large part of america's problem is that all the trump supporters who got him into office were too afraid to tell anyone they supported him. So words are words when they don't have any backing to them.

But generally i am just going on that HAS happened, rather than what could have. People voted to leave the EU enough to win simply because the government didn't want to leave. Same as Trump, people voted trump so they didnt have what the government there wanted. It is 100% a protest vote, and a lot more effective than rioting in the streets.
 
See, you take something that I write and spin it in your own acerbic way.

I've spun nowt, Bruce. I've seen that and remembered your stance on other posts/topics and have drawn the logical conclusion.

And seeing as you're the one quoting & agreeing with such 'respected' sources (No more than gloabalists, operating on behalf of the corporate greed machine themselves) I'll direct my concerns to you ,and point out my observations on the thread for all to judge for themselves.
 
fair point.

but whether it would have happened? Large part of america's problem is that all the trump supporters who got him into office were too afraid to tell anyone they supported him. So words are words when they don't have any backing to them.

But generally i am just going on that HAS happened, rather than what could have. People voted to leave the EU enough to win simply because the government didn't want to leave. Same as Trump, people voted trump so they didnt have what the government there wanted. It is 100% a protest vote, and a lot more effective than rioting in the streets.

Well thats impossible to answer isn't it , given the quotes and open support of the militia's for Trump is was a genuine concern given the pre-election rhetoric.

As regards protest I think it's perfectly reasonable , people have an absolute right to oppose political parties or decisions . From thatcher and the poll tax to the war in Iraq it's a right to protest and in the US it's even legislated for . The difference comes when violence enters the protest .
 
interestingly for many young people the thought of working in a steel factory, mill, mine whatever is probably not that attractive and they did it cos thats what everyone else has done, maybe to them working in a call centre or whatever is no worse...
you never know, working in that steel factory mate, there could be a chance of a flashdance.
 
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