BigDunc'sFod
Player Valuation: £35m
Moyes is like drawing all your games.
I'd rather win half and lose half and end up with more overall.
I'd rather win half and lose half and end up with more overall.
Does Moyes' reign look better with hindsight given the dismal performances of his successors?
- Thread starter RhylBlue
- Start date
- Status
Who'd have Moyes back now? Where was the support for Moyes before we appointed Silva?!
I said I'd have preferred Moyes before/when we brought in Koeman.
I said I'd have preferred Moyes before/when we brought in Allardyce.
He's better than both, I've got nothing against him but lets call a spade a spade and not rewrite history.
Martinez 5th, 11th, 11th, Koeman's 7th and Allardyce's 8th don't influence my opinion one bit on Moyes.
In the same way his dismal performance at his clubs after Everton don't influence my opinion on him.
Nobody would have took Moyes at the time knowing we'd go 11 seasons without winning a trophy or even a single away game at a Liverpool or Man Utd.
Nobody would take another 10+ years of Moyes now.
I said I'd have preferred Moyes before/when we brought in Koeman.
I said I'd have preferred Moyes before/when we brought in Allardyce.
He's better than both, I've got nothing against him but lets call a spade a spade and not rewrite history.
Martinez 5th, 11th, 11th, Koeman's 7th and Allardyce's 8th don't influence my opinion one bit on Moyes.
In the same way his dismal performance at his clubs after Everton don't influence my opinion on him.
Nobody would have took Moyes at the time knowing we'd go 11 seasons without winning a trophy or even a single away game at a Liverpool or Man Utd.
Nobody would take another 10+ years of Moyes now.
Ihaters
Player Valuation: £35m
Feel free but it has no relevance to what Moyes took on and the difference he made.
Ihaters
Player Valuation: £35m
I wouldn't have him back but he built a platform on which a decent manager could of built something great. Knowing what we know, i would still of had Moyes but would of changed the Martinez appointment.
But it's like people have forgotten what he changed us from and just how bad we were.
Ihaters
Player Valuation: £35m
I wouldn't have him back but he built a platform on which a decent manager could of built something great. Knowing what we know, i would still of had Moyes but would of changed the Martinez appointment.
But it's like people have forgotten what he changed us from and just how bad we were.
Mitch Ward's Minder
Player Valuation: £6m
As mentioned before the Moyes era was full of missed opportunities and what-ifs especially the 2007-08 season where a possible cup treble was very likely (going out to Oldham [thanks Wessels] and Portsmouth winning the FA, an unfortunate last min OG in the LC semi V Chelsea, Fiorentina going on to lose to Rangers who lost to Zenit who we beat in UC say no more) and in 2012 FA semi we had the RS on the ropes but threw it away to stupid errors and Moyes swapping Felli and Cahill around at half time.
The squad we had under Moyes was class and I'd love to have a fair share of them now, however with the potential of those players we should have done more. Moyes lay the foundations, but come the end of his tenure a lot of players were on the downward spiral and unfortunately since then I don't think as a club we have replaced players adequately enough. Has Distin been replaced by better, nope. Have we had a better leader than Neville, doubt it. Have we had a player with better footwork than Ossie, no (despite his faults he was an integral player for us).
Moyes was steady, but his time was up, he had ran his course with the club and would not have taken us any further. Something had to change for us to progress and break out of the then familiar, either he went or the players went.
Martinez came in and it was fantastic for 1 season, mediocre for 2 one of which we should have made 2 cup finals (missed opportunities is a theme of late). His substitutions left many a blue in disarray. Koeman had a bad season despite finishing 7th and getting Europe. There was a period of about 2 months were we won 2 games out of about 12 under Ron. We played well up until September and then again after the NY. His reign will be epitomised by playing a 5 man defence at Anfield and then getting his ar5e handed to him again and again by the bigger lads this season.
Good riddance to them all. Long live Marco!!
The squad we had under Moyes was class and I'd love to have a fair share of them now, however with the potential of those players we should have done more. Moyes lay the foundations, but come the end of his tenure a lot of players were on the downward spiral and unfortunately since then I don't think as a club we have replaced players adequately enough. Has Distin been replaced by better, nope. Have we had a better leader than Neville, doubt it. Have we had a player with better footwork than Ossie, no (despite his faults he was an integral player for us).
Moyes was steady, but his time was up, he had ran his course with the club and would not have taken us any further. Something had to change for us to progress and break out of the then familiar, either he went or the players went.
Martinez came in and it was fantastic for 1 season, mediocre for 2 one of which we should have made 2 cup finals (missed opportunities is a theme of late). His substitutions left many a blue in disarray. Koeman had a bad season despite finishing 7th and getting Europe. There was a period of about 2 months were we won 2 games out of about 12 under Ron. We played well up until September and then again after the NY. His reign will be epitomised by playing a 5 man defence at Anfield and then getting his ar5e handed to him again and again by the bigger lads this season.
Good riddance to them all. Long live Marco!!
Philw
Player Valuation: £50m
We were perennial relegation candidates, multiple last day escapes. If you offered the fans regular top 8 finishes, a few European adventures and a cup final, I think it would be a lot closer than you think...
Obviously, but we're not the same club (largely due to him), and he's not the same man(ager), so it's a moot point.
TraffordBlue
Player Valuation: £30m
Whilst we all would like to experience the winning feeling of beating the bigger sides away from home again/more regularly, placing so much importance on this is ridiculous in relation to the finishing positions he achieved and discussing his overall time as manager. It was a reasonably important aspect but no where near as important as actually competing in the League Table against the top clubs where he regularly had us punching above our weight in terms of resources.
We didn't beat any of them in 04/05 yet came 4th. Does that mean that the 4th placed finish isn't worth as much praise because we lost a few crunch games away? What about 13/14 under Martinez? That was an excellent season and the most important thing was our impressive 5th placed finish and record PL points total. We didn't beat any of the top 6 away then either though.
The knife to a gunfight mentality was a pathetic and negative attitude from Moyes in a lot of them games but there also seems to be a bit of re-writing of history going on to make out he was the cause of the lack of success in these games.
After winning in the August of 1992, we didn't win a single game at Old Trafford from that time until 2002 when he came in. We won once at Arsenal in that 10 year period, once at Chelsea and twice at Anfield. So how exactly is Moyes to blame for our repeated failures at those grounds? And coincidentally, since Moyes left, we have only managed a single victory at any of them. Against a 7th placed Man United side.
Not winning away at a top club in 11 seasons is indicative of the problem regarding mentality under Moyes. Through his own admission, he'd go there not to lose rather than to win.
You can bury your head in the sand, but it is significant we haven't won at Anfield since 1999.
Everton FC existed long before the terrible period in the 90s (when we still won a cup!) - it wasn't like we were Bolton Wanderers or Charlton Athletic until Moyes come along.
Fans back then wouldn't have signed up for 11 seasons of winning nothing.
Fans now, wouldn't - that's why there was no appetite from Evertonians to have Moyes back after Martinez, Koeman or Allardyce.
TraffordBlue
Player Valuation: £30m
I think you're seeing something that isn't there to be honest. We have an awful record at Anfield, Moyes just continued that trend and was open about how cowardly his approach to a lot of those games was. Whereas Martinez has brainwashed people in to thinking he used to go for victories at those grounds and actually came away with 2 of our worst defeats in decades. The worst case being the 4-0 in 15/16 where Liverpool had 37 shots to our 3 and 13 on target to our 0. Just think about that for a minute, 0 shots on target against a Liverpool side that came 8th...
Post 69-70 when we beat them on the way to winning the league, we have had regular spells of not winning there, notably:
From March 1970 - October 1984 (14 years)
October 1987 to November 1995 (8 years)
And i'd agree that we bottled that Semi Final in 2012 at Wembley and Moyes had a hand in that, but again, it's nothing new where that fixture is concerned when competing for major trophies:
March 71 - Lost at Old Trafford in the FA Cup Semi Final
April 77 - Lost at Maine Road in the FA Cup Semi Final replay
March 84 - Lost at Maine Road in the League Cup Final replay
May 1986 - Lost at Wembley in the FA Cup Final
May 1989 - Lost at Wembley in the FA Cup Final
David Moyes continued the issue in these types of games, but to suggest he was the cause has no factual evidence in my opinion.
Reasoned enough debate, but I do think this;
... isn't in isolation to the terrible record Moyes had. It's no coincidence.
Nowhere have I said I'd sooner winning at top clubs is as important as league position, but having the belief/ability to do so is important otherwise you're never going to win a trophy.
You could argue he was pragmatic, and that would be fair - but for me he put the Moyes agenda before the clubs and it was in his own interest to downplay expectation at every turn which was harmful to Everton.
He did the same thing at Man Utd to an extent Sociedad and definitely Sunderland.
twoblue
Player Valuation: £35m
Moyes was a good manager. We spent next to nothing. I’d have like to see him have more money to spend and have lukaku in one of his teams. We were always a player or two short.
That said having left I’d have no interest in him coming back. Onwards and upwards (hopefully)
That said having left I’d have no interest in him coming back. Onwards and upwards (hopefully)
Ihaters
Player Valuation: £35m
Moyes won more than he lost or drew against City.
Dwight K Schrute
Player Valuation: £35m
No.
Next question.
Next question.
- Status
Welcome
Join Grand Old Team to get involved in the Everton discussion. Signing up is quick, easy, and completely free.
Shop
