Dear David Moyes...

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I'm not changing the argument, I'm still talking about league positions, so you point is invalid.

Point is, we finished 7th and 8th with significant amounts of money spent in the last few years. Moyes achieved that more frequently and even did better than that with no money.

Like Moyes or not he's done better than any manager we've had since.

People who say, what about his time at United?

He was there less than a year, they didn't back him to the same extent as any big name manager they've had and they also weren't as patient because he didn't have a big reputation compared to the caliber of manager they're used to.

So United, he wasn't given enough time or money, relatively.

Spain he didn't speak the language, which would have been a big issue. He was foolish to take a job in Spain.

Sunderland he wasn't given any decent money to strengthen a seriously poor squad.

Moyes had his faults, being too defensive often but he got results above the amount of money he was given to spend.

Shame we just have a lot of fans who just want to rewrite history because they think he was a k**b for how he left us, which he was.

Difference between you and me is I can see things how they were and don't need to undermine anything good someone did just because I don't like them.
You say he did well at Everton with no money, but failed at Utd & Sunderland because he wasn’t given money.

At Utd he inherited the champions. And spent 27 on felliani and 38 on mata.

I will admit moyes did a good job at Everton, but And he never won at the top 4 of that time, And was way to negative to really challenge and win things. Also was a different era not much money around at that time, let’s not forget we got 4th with 61 points, Koeman got 61 points to finish 7th.
 
To be fair to Moyes if he was still at United I believe they would have achieved more than they have since sacking him.
 
To be fair to Moyes if he was still at United I believe they would have achieved more than they have since sacking him.

They've won an FA Cup, a League Cup and a Europa League since he was sacked by United. I can't think of a single good reason why he'd have won more than that if they'd have not given him the boot. He was totally out of his depth there and isn't a winner.
 
I think I appreciate his achievements a lot more now, than I did at the time. While he was certainly not perfect, we did put in some awful performances in big games, however nothing changed after he left. We got beat by the RS 4-0 twice in 3 seasons under Bobby and we haven't beat them since he left. Add to that we lost 2 winnable semi finals under Bobby as well. We've got knocked out of the domestic cups in the early rounds since Bobby left. Losing against teams such as Norwich, Leicester, Southampton and Millwall. Even in Koemann's first season we were pretty awful away from home, not having a single shot on goal against a West Ham side conceding for fun. Losing 2 goal leads at Bournmouth and Newcastle, plus losing to Liverpool and Millwall in the last minutes of games, suggests that we don't have much character.
Personally like many people I've just given up with Everton atm, there's nothing to like about us, we weren't that far behind teams like Spurs and the RS a few years ago, now they're miles ahead of us. Even in the derby, when we played pretty well, we din't really create any proper chances. I don't know how we've gone from thinking about challenging the top four, to being happy if we simply draw with the big teams. I thought Tim Howard made dome ridiculous mistakes, but he's not even in the league of the clown in goal now. Plus Howard didn't cost 30 million.
 
I'm very fond of good poetry. My favourite piece of verse ever, was writ on this very forum.
To wit : He's 6 foot 5 and his name's Yerri Mina
His winkle's the size of the hose on a vacuum cleaner
He gets on the lemo, with David Ospina
Ohhh, Yerri Mina


But some of the poetic pieces contributed today have also been absolutely fabulous.
What a talented bunch of folk hang out here on GOT.
This is my ode to deipnosophist
If you left, you wouldn’t be missed xx
 

They've won an FA Cup, a League Cup and a Europa League since he was sacked by United. I can't think of a single good reason why he'd have won more than that if they'd have not given him the boot. He was totally out of his depth there and isn't a winner.
Yes, but Moyes is good at team building. I think they would be further along now, and have more of a unified squad. They may or may not have won some trophies, but I imagine he would have won a cup competition or two.

Thing is, if Man Utd had taken on Moyes or a Poch, or even a Howe they would have to grow into the job. But Man Utd were not willing to do that.

Man Utd’s squad needed a complete overhaul, but he was not given the chance to do so. Based on how our transfers went over the years I think he would have put a very good team together over time.

Of course you can say he is not a winner, but he did win his first trophy there. Alright, it was the Charity Shield, but it is still a trophy. Like anything else, if you give a good manager a good team he will eventually succeed (with a bit of luck).
 
I think I appreciate his achievements a lot more now, than I did at the time. While he was certainly not perfect, we did put in some awful performances in big games, however nothing changed after he left. We got beat by the RS 4-0 twice in 3 seasons under Bobby and we haven't beat them since he left. Add to that we lost 2 winnable semi finals under Bobby as well. We've got knocked out of the domestic cups in the early rounds since Bobby left. Losing against teams such as Norwich, Leicester, Southampton and Millwall. Even in Koemann's first season we were pretty awful away from home, not having a single shot on goal against a West Ham side conceding for fun. Losing 2 goal leads at Bournmouth and Newcastle, plus losing to Liverpool and Millwall in the last minutes of games, suggests that we don't have much character.
Personally like many people I've just given up with Everton atm, there's nothing to like about us, we weren't that far behind teams like Spurs and the RS a few years ago, now they're miles ahead of us. Even in the derby, when we played pretty well, we din't really create any proper chances. I don't know how we've gone from thinking about challenging the top four, to being happy if we simply draw with the big teams. I thought Tim Howard made dome ridiculous mistakes, but he's not even in the league of the clown in goal now. Plus Howard didn't cost 30 million.
What is really galling is we were ahead of Spurs not so long ago.

Liverpool just have much larger resources. Unless we get a Shiek owner or something like that then they will finish above us more often than not. Even then we would need a good manager.
 
What is really galling is we were ahead of Spurs not so long ago.

Liverpool just have much larger resources. Unless we get a Shiek owner or something like that then they will finish above us more often than not. Even then we would need a good manager.
I don't think we were ever going to be bigger than Liverpool or anything like that, but I did think we'd challenge them a bit more. Even in the 2015/2016 when we were pretty rubbish, I still didn't think we were that far behind the RS or Spurs. The more money we have spent, the further we seem from challenging the top 6. I remember in he 2012/2013 season when we outplayed teams like Man City, Man United, Spurs and Arsenal, we were pretty unlucky not to win at Anfield. I remember being annoyed with simply getting a draw at Arsenal or Spurs, now I'd take a draw with them away from home all day. We did show some fight in the derby, however I think our crowd played a huge part in that and Salahs failure to score in the first half. It's not just the fact we lose, it's the pathetic way we lose that worries me. I worry that we may turn into another Villa, when we appoint a long list of poor managers and end up in mess. Sunderland made similar mistakes, bought a whole bunch of mercenaries and ending up in a mess.
 
To be fair to Moyes if he was still at United I believe they would have achieved more than they have since sacking him.
Im not sure about this, but if he left us for a Villa, Newcastle or a West ham level club they would of done much better then they have, possibly avoided a drop.
United is as big as it gets and was always going to be too big.

Big question is what would we have done with him.
 

The only reason Moyes did any good was because he was fortunate enough to have Tony Hibbert in his team. See how he failed at United, Real, Sunderland and West Ham. The reason? No Tony Hibbert. I don't understand how people aren't seeing this. The real letter you should be writing is the one to Tony Hibbert, grovelling for his forgiveness and begging him to return.
 

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