2024/25 David Moyes

[Bishop Thumpety-Thump]

Martyn, Hibbert, Weir, Stubbs, Pistone, Osman (Gravesen 58), Watson, Carsley, Cahill, Kilbane (Naysmith 73), Bent (Ferguson 73). Subs Not Used: Wright, McFadden.

Did well to reach the 2009 cup final years after finishing fourth.

Finishing fourth hey? That’s one place higher than Martinez ever got us with fifth.

You’d have to be daft as a brush to constantly keep referring to the lesser achievement without acknowledging the greater achievement.

 

[Marius57]

Hes certainly not been using Alcaraz correctly.

I agree, I would want Alcaraz central in place of Doucoure. But again, it comes down to options, which we have had very few.

There is also a reason he wants doucoure in there and he is trying to get them both in because what they offer is clearly better than the options that have been available.

I would hope that doucoure starts to drop out over the next few games but I think considering who the opposition is, Moyes will want to keep him in for his athleticism and tackling.

 

[Marius57]

…in one interview he seemed keen to get DCL back. I might be reading this wrong but I got the impression he still thinks he’s the best striker at the club.

I mean, he is the best striker at the club in terms of technically when on the ball. Isn’t the best finisher, but when you see how quickly our attacks break down, you can see why every manager wants him in.

Our last 2 games, the passing accuracy of our front were Beto (35, 54), Doucoure (60, 66) and Harrison (44, 42).

It’s just constant turnover of possession putting pressure on the midfield and defence.

 

[jceverton]

Nah it’s just not true this and this is what’s annoying. We drew away at Arsenal and the forum was absolutely full of people saying our performance was a disgrace. We draw at home and the same people want to make out like it’s an incredible result. For me it’s all about consistency, a draw was a good result then and it’s a good result now. I’m not blinded by whether I like the manager or not.

To be fair a draw away to Arsenal is a good result. A draw at home is average.

 

[Ferguson1878]

So is it in Moyes we trust or with Moyes we rust ?

 

[Saint Domingo]

Nah it’s just not true this and this is what’s annoying. We drew away at Arsenal and the forum was absolutely full of people saying our performance was a disgrace. We draw at home and the same people want to make out like it’s an incredible result. For me it’s all about consistency, a draw was a good result then and it’s a good result now. I’m not blinded by whether I like the manager or not.

There’s a lot of this about.

Some people twisting the knife into Moyes who had defended Dyche to the hilt

Some people now willing to accept a raft of excuses that seemingly didn’t apply for Dyche.

The truth has remained the same for both of them. Player quality more than any other factor dictates results. We have a squad that is somewhere between 13th-16th best in the league. If it over performs a bit it might be top of the bottom half, if it under performs it’s in trouble at the bottom.

It probably slightly over performed last season and was slightly under performing this season.

The day Everton managers are consistently and significantly underperforming their squad quality over a long term period is the time to get angry about them. Most people are just fuming that Everton managers can’t drag European form consistently from a bottom half group of players. Just because they played well one week doesn’t mean they will the next. That’s why they’re in the bottom half.

Winning 4 in a row under Dyche doesn’t mean ‘look that’s what they’re capable of’ and equally losing 4 in a row under him doesn’t mean we’re going down. Consistency of results can only be seen in a much larger sample of games, even half a season isn’t really enough given the assignment of fixtures. It’s why a lot of very poor bottom half teams can suddenly get out of trouble with a new manager bounce as a load of easier fixtures arrive, only to find the season after they’re straight back down at the bottom again.

It’s the same with Moyes. Winning the games he did at the start of his tenure doesn’t mean this squad is suddenly a top half squad. Just because he’s drawn a few since doesn’t mean he’s now useless.

Moyes is a better manager than Dyche and will get a bit more out of these players, but if you want significant improvement you need new players, end of. Otherwise there’ll be a period when Moyes underperforms with them, as Dyche did and we’ll be back battling at the bottom.

 

[jceverton]

That’s probably why he was given a 2.5 year contract then isn’t it?

He is a very good manager. Best we have had in 20 years.

He will get us stable. That isn’t a 6 month job, as we are still working through psr issues. At the end of 1.5 years, after he has stabilised us and maybe gets us top half, then he gets the next season to see if he can start to progress.

Think a lot of people forget just how bad we were before he came in and seem to forget just how many years we have been an absolute shambles for.

It’s this type of hyperbole which is ridiculous. He’s won a Division 2 title and a Europa conference trophy in 27 years of management. That should be no one’s definition of a very good manager. He’s the longest serving Everton manager who’s never won a trophy. He’s a decent competent manager. Very good - you’re having a laugh.

 

[MikeH72]

It’s this type of hyperbole which is ridiculous. He’s won a Division 2 title and a Europa conference trophy in 27 years of management. That should be no one’s definition of a very good manager. He’s the longest serving Everton manager who’s never won a trophy. He’s a decent competent manager. Very good - you’re having a laugh.

This just isn’t the flex you think it is at all. The fact that other managers have been worse than him and sacked before they could get anywhere near his tenure is a reflection on them more than it is him. We’ve also only won 16 trophies in our entire history.

 

[Marius57]

It’s this type of hyperbole which is ridiculous. He’s won a Division 2 title and a Europa conference trophy in 27 years of management. That should be no one’s definition of a very good manager. He’s the longest serving Everton manager who’s never won a trophy. He’s a decent competent manager. Very good - you’re having a laugh.

Hardly hyperbole. Or ridiculous.

You said he is decent - ie, not bad but not great.

I said he is very good, ie, also not great, but better than just good or decent. Which reflects what he managed with us on a shoestring budget and he has won silverware which most managers never do.

You are complaining about the nuance between whether he is “decent” or a bit better than decent.
It’s not like I said he is the best manager in the world.

 

[Delargeinho]

Finishing fourth hey? That’s one place higher than Martinez ever got us with fifth.

You’d have to be daft as a brush to constantly keep referring to the lesser achievement without acknowledging the greater achievement.

Martinez indeed got us 5th with a new points record, but also can't deny he had us 11th the 2nd season and was sacked being 12th the 3rd season, both with a lower points total than even miracle worker Dyche (ironic off) had in his only full season, which were the worst table positions since 03/04 where we got 17th under Moyes, which was Moyes' only FULL season under 11th.

 

[windymiller]

No, had to finish in European places two seasons in a row with West Ham. A club he twice had to come in and get safe from relegation fights into the bargain.

The prior season he took them to the Europa semis and last season he took them to the Europa quarters.

And last season:

“West Ham are tied with Aston Villa for points (12) and wins (four) against ‘Big Six’ sides this season. Since 2018-19, only five clubs have had more such wins in a single season: six for Leicester City, in 2020-21, Brighton & Hove Albion and Brentford, both in 2022-23, and five for Everton and Villa, both in 2020-21.”

David Moyes’ West Ham are perfectly set up to beat the Big Six – here’s how

A trip to Old Trafford this weekend and the upcoming visit of Arsenal might be just what West Ham need right now

www.nytimes.com

It's clear your a huge Moyes enthusiast, your username alone demonstrates that, and I'm not trying to change your mind. He does a good job wherever he goes but he doesn't win things. He's got one trophy in a 27 year managerial career. He's got one win away from home against Arsenal in 20 something attempts and you used that as evidence of his greatness, whereas all that tells me is that he lacks ambition against the so-called bigger teams.

We'll do fine with Moyes, but no better than fine, and at 62 years old (in a couple of weeks) he can only be a stop gap in any case.

 

[jceverton]

Iraola is another flavour of the month manager like hundreds of others who've come and gone down the years.

Moyes will still be managing in the Prem when Iraola in back in Spain managing in Segunda B.

Moyes isnt the 3rd longest serving manager in Premier League history for nothing.

Moyes is only the 3rd longest manager because Kenwright ran the club poorly and gave him a free pass for 12 years.

 

[MikeH72]

Moyes is only the 3rd longest manager because Kenwright ran the club poorly and gave him a free pass for 12 years.

A free pass to finish regularly in the top half and play in Europe and get us to the latter stages of cup competitions after taking over a skint club on the verge of relegation.

At what point would you personally have sacked him?

 

[jceverton]

This just isn’t the flex you think it is at all. The fact that other managers have been worse than him and sacked before they could get anywhere near his tenure is a reflection on them more than it is him. We’ve also only won 16 trophies in our entire history.

I’d say it was crystal clear. We accepted his mediocrity because we also had the longest standing Chairman in the clubs history without a trophy. In any other era he’d have been booted into touch well before he left.

 

[Marius57]

A free pass to finish regularly in the top half and play in Europe and get us to the latter stages of cup competitions after taking over a skint club on the verge of relegation.

At what point would you personally have sacked him?

I’m sure they would have got rid of him in his first full season when he finished 17th. The year before we finished 4th. Because they would have obviously then hired someone who would have won the league on 5p budget.