Cycling thread

[Armel]

Yesterday there was a documentary about the moment when Sven Nys ruined his legacy for a lot of Belgian fans. He's still not sorry. He received death threats after that, and for the rest of his career he was dubbed a "treacherous Dutchman" by a part of the crowd. I don't agree with all of that but I have to say I was quite pleased when he got his comeuppance a few years later . You simply do not play the team game, in a race between countries.

Moment 1:



Watch the wink to Groenendaal.


Moment 2 (his comeuppance - he had to end that race in sixth position to win the WC qualification; watch how they all beat him and then look back at him):

 

[Bruce Wayne]

What did he do?

 

[Armel]

What did he do?

He played the team game in a World Championship (between countries). He refused to help De Clercq to bridge the gap to Groenendaal (his Rabobank team mate). With his help they would have always caught him, he even admits this. De Clercq would have comfortably won the sprint between them three.

It's all the more dreadful since you can actually see the both of them talking during the race, you can hear the disbelief of the commentators when he refuses to help ...., the extreme booing of the crowd, his wink after the race to Groenendaal... It was horrible all-round.

 

[.....!]

Hey folks... anybody got any ideas about or has a Planet X Pro Carbon Evo? I know they are cheapish but they seem to have decent quality components etcs. I'm thinking of going for one with SRAM Force groupset.....

https://www.planetx.co.uk/c/q/bikes/road-bikes/pro-carbon-evo

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Hey folks... anybody got any ideas about or has a Planet X Pro Carbon Evo? I know they are cheapish but they seem to have decent quality components etcs. I'm thinking of going for one with SRAM Force groupset.....

https://www.planetx.co.uk/c/q/bikes/road-bikes/pro-carbon-evo

I've been riding a 1k Focus Cayo for the best part of a decade and it's served me perfectly well. The only thing I've touched in that time is the wheelset, so you can get a decent bike for that price range.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

He played the team game in a World Championship (between countries). He refused to help De Clercq to bridge the gap to Groenendaal (his Rabobank team mate). With his help they would have always caught him, he even admits this. De Clercq would have comfortably won the sprint between them three.

It's all the more dreadful since you can actually see the both of them talking during the race, you can hear the disbelief of the commentators when he refuses to help ...., the extreme booing of the crowd, his wink after the race to Groenendaal... It was horrible all-round.

It's not 'that' uncommon though is it? Plenty of examples from the Road Worlds of riders helping out trade teammates even when not on the same national team.

 

[Black Belt Jones]

He played the team game in a World Championship (between countries). He refused to help De Clercq to bridge the gap to Groenendaal (his Rabobank team mate). With his help they would have always caught him, he even admits this. De Clercq would have comfortably won the sprint between them three.

It's all the more dreadful since you can actually see the both of them talking during the race, you can hear the disbelief of the commentators when he refuses to help ...., the extreme booing of the crowd, his wink after the race to Groenendaal... It was horrible all-round.

Sven seemed quite young there - I think you have to cut him some slack for that. Ironic that it was Groenendaal he helped in 2000, then in 2004 it was the same man he lost the WC to because his team mates ganged up on him in revenge. I'd say King Sven had the last laugh, though - he crushed everyone to dust the season after [although I've only red about this, I didn't follow CX at the time].

There's a race in the UK called the 3-peaks, labelled the world's toughest cyclocross race - except it isn't really a cyclocross race in any modern sense of the word, it's a 40 mile race up and down three rocky hillsides in the Pennines. Big deal, long history, large field and hard to get an entry - anyhow, Groenendall showed up last year and raced it which was pretty cool. Think he did well, although wasn't right at the front - you need to be a good fell runner to contest the 3 peaks as large parts of the climbs are unrideable [and the descents are well rocky, nothing like a normal CX course].

 

[Black Belt Jones]

Hey folks... anybody got any ideas about or has a Planet X Pro Carbon Evo? I know they are cheapish but they seem to have decent quality components etcs. I'm thinking of going for one with SRAM Force groupset.....

https://www.planetx.co.uk/c/q/bikes/road-bikes/pro-carbon-evo

I've had a few on-one / planet X bikes (current TT bike is a S/H exocet 2) and always been lucky with them - they are always well thought out and obv good value. However, should you be unlucky and have a problem they can be a nightmare to deal with. One of their bikes called the London Road did a lot of damage to their rep - solid design as always but shocking QC meant loads of complaints and their attitude seemed to be STFU and don't bother us. You can prob read about it on one of the bike boards like bikeradar or singletrackworld.

End of the day I would still buy a bike from them [and that one does look nice] but I'd be aware it wasn't like buying a canyon or similar direct sales thing. Lack of aftersales supprt / iffy warranty is part of the reason the bike is cheap in the first place.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I've had a few on-one / planet X bikes (current TT bike is a S/H exocet 2) and always been lucky with them - they are always well thought out and obv good value. However, should you be unlucky and have a problem they can be a nightmare to deal with. One of their bikes called the London Road did a lot of damage to their rep - solid design as always but shocking QC meant loads of complaints and their attitude seemed to be STFU and don't bother us. You can prob read about it on one of the bike boards like bikeradar or singletrackworld.

End of the day I would still buy a bike from them [and that one does look nice] but I'd be aware it wasn't like buying a canyon or similar direct sales thing. Lack of aftersales supprt / iffy warranty is part of the reason the bike is cheap in the first place.

It's still about your legs though isn't it? I've rented three different bikes this year on various trips abroad, with the most expensive retailing for 2.5x what I bought my Cayo for. I didn't think there was any noticeable difference, although the latest had tubeless tyres, which were a pain in the 'arris to change when I got a puncture.

 

[Black Belt Jones]

It's still about your legs though isn't it? I've rented three different bikes this year on various trips abroad, with the most expensive retailing for 2.5x what I bought my Cayo for. I didn't think there was any noticeable difference, although the latest had tubeless tyres, which were a pain in the 'arris to change when I got a puncture.

I don't own a proper road bike, but if I did I wouldn't be shy about splashing out because they last for a very long time and road bike geometry is not something that changes with fashion (much) like mountain bike geo does. Obv the law of diminishing returns is in full effect over a certain pricepoint - for me the only thing I'm really arsed about is the wheels. I usually buy bikes for around a grand and the wheels go straight on ebay to be replaced with something good. For whatever reason the bike industry under-specs wheels at all pricepoints, you have to spend serious money before you get a high quality wheelset stock on a bike.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I don't own a proper road bike, but if I did I wouldn't be shy about splashing out because they last for a very long time and road bike geometry is not something that changes with fashion (much) like mountain bike geo does. Obv the law of diminishing returns is in full effect over a certain pricepoint - for me the only thing I'm really arsed about is the wheels. I usually buy bikes for around a grand and the wheels go straight on ebay to be replaced with something good. For whatever reason the bike industry under-specs wheels at all pricepoints, you have to spend serious money before you get a high quality wheelset stock on a bike.

That's kinda what I did. Got some nice Easton wheels not long after buying the bike.

 

[Armel]

It's not 'that' uncommon though is it? Plenty of examples from the Road Worlds of riders helping out trade teammates even when not on the same national team.

You don't do that in Belgium and certainly not in such an obvious manner. It's okay to help out a team mate when your country doesn't have a chance in hell of winning but not this. De Clercq would have always won. It's going to haunt him for the rest of his days. Just like the incident between Merckx, Gimondi and Maertens, the national drama in 1973. For years they've written about the shame that happened there; and that was a whole lot less obvious. That was more an incident of Merkx thinking he would always win (tbf to him he normally did); while the most sensible thing to do was working with Maertens. They've only somewhat recently reconciled, 2004. It wasn't even that bad since he didn't directly help Gimondi win it. Unlike Nys.

Merckx had a lot of explaining to do after that; lots of inquests on national television:



This is a good cyclocross team mate. Watch how De Clercq (the year after the Nys incident) outmanoeuvres Dlask (the Czech). Vervecken goes past him; as does De Clercq and then De Crecq "accidentally" stutters. Vervecken is gone and wins the title in Tabor (Czech Republic).

Sven seemed quite young there - I think you have to cut him some slack for that. Ironic that it was Groenendaal he helped in 2000, then in 2004 it was the same man he lost the WC to because his team mates ganged up on him in revenge. I'd say King Sven had the last laugh, though - he crushed everyone to dust the season after [although I've only red about this, I didn't follow CX at the time].

There's a race in the UK called the 3-peaks, labelled the world's toughest cyclocross race - except it isn't really a cyclocross race in any modern sense of the word, it's a 40 mile race up and down three rocky hillsides in the Pennines. Big deal, long history, large field and hard to get an entry - anyhow, Groenendall showed up last year and raced it which was pretty cool. Think he did well, although wasn't right at the front - you need to be a good fell runner to contest the 3 peaks as large parts of the climbs are unrideable [and the descents are well rocky, nothing like a normal CX course].

Well yes I suppose you could say he had the last laugh since afterwards he won just about everything. For years, it's like he was reborn in 2004. What made it worse though is that it was Groenendaal; he was the most hated figure in Belgium. Totally unlike VDP; everybody adores Mathieu VDP. Groenendaal is a bit of an arse (used to be, he might have mellowed though idk).

Seems like an awesome race. If there's a lot of running I'm sure that Van Aert would be up for it.

 

[Black Belt Jones]

This is a good cyclocross team mate. Watch how De Clercq (the year after the Nys incident) outmanoeuvres Dlask (the Czech). Vervecken goes past him; as does De Clercq and then De Crecq "accidentally" stutters. Vervecken is gone and wins the title in Tabor (Czech Republic).





Well yes I suppose you could say he had the last laugh since afterwards he won just about everything. For years, it's like he was reborn in 2004. What made it worse though is that it was Groenendaal; he was the most hated figure in Belgium. Totally unlike VDP; everybody adores Mathieu VDP. Groenendaal is a bit of an arse (used to be, he might have mellowed though idk).
.

Looks like a proper CX race there - savage conditions.
Amazing how the elite level can throw up such close races - there's the possibility of making 100 mistakes a lap, but it can come down to just a single one.

Are you doing any racing yourself these days Armel? I'm four races in to our season and starting to feel stronger - started a bit out of shape but getting my eye in now [although I'm a bit sore from crashing last week - rode the boards and went over the bars on the first lap like a bad Ted]. My daughter races the U8s as well - good friendly feel to the local scene here.

 

[Armel]

Looks like a proper CX race there - savage conditions.
Amazing how the elite level can throw up such close races - there's the possibility of making 100 mistakes a lap, but it can come down to just a single one.

Are you doing any racing yourself these days Armel? I'm four races in to our season and starting to feel stronger - started a bit out of shape but getting my eye in now [although I'm a bit sore from crashing last week - rode the boards and went over the bars on the first lap like a bad Ted]. My daughter races the U8s as well - good friendly feel to the local scene here.

Yes I always think it's more fun to watch when it's more competitive. That's why a bit more internationalisation would be fun. Now you have Flanders and the Netherlands (and almost all of the very good ones live in Flanders). You used to have a few good Swiss, Czech and Italian riders but not any more. The Americans have a very good (mainly recreational) scene and the Louisville WC was one of the best WChampionships in recent years. I just wish they had a few more decent riders. And a bit more spectators at their races. I think they'll have to make it an Olympic sport to increase the participation (especially in countries like the U.K. where funding is dependant on such criteria).

No I mainly play football nowadays, I just cycle recreationally. U8 I didn't even knew that they have a category for cyclists of her age. How many km's do they make them ride? It's probably more fun than football, I still remember all the "friendly" parents. Have you ever won any races?

I do know they have categories for very old people. I saw Herman Van Springel (born in 1943) become WC (in practice Belgium and the Netherlands) a few weeks ago - I suppose he finally wanted to win the the thing he was second in '68.

 

[Black Belt Jones]

Yes I always think it's more fun to watch when it's more competitive. That's why a bit more internationalisation would be fun. Now you have Flanders and the Netherlands (and almost all of the very good ones live in Flanders). You used to have a few good Swiss, Czech and Italian riders but not any more. The Americans have a very good (mainly recreational) scene and the Louisville WC was one of the best WChampionships in recent years. I just wish they had a few more decent riders. And a bit more spectators at their races. I think they'll have to make it an Olympic sport to increase the participation (especially in countries like the U.K. where funding is dependant on such criteria).

No I mainly play football nowadays, I just cycle recreationally. U8 I didn't even knew that they have a category for cyclists of her age. How many km's do they make them ride? It's probably more fun than football, I still remember all the "friendly" parents. Have you ever won any races?

I

The Americans seem strong in terms of raw athleticism, but come over to Belgium and get lapped. They must lack the technique at the top level - seem to have a lot of hard dry courses over there that are easy to ride. Plus the Flandrian heritage of hardman cycling is unique to Belgium / Holland and no one else has that.

The U8s in our events are just a 10 min race round a small lap, no features although it can be muddy. The kids races are really popular, apparently there were over 100 kids racing U12 and down at our last event which is pretty impressive. Some of the equipment is a bit OTT - my son does a few races but finds it stressful, he said Dad - the kids who passed me had wheels just like you! ie deep section carbon tubulars in an U12 race. I think the league banned bike changes for these races as otherwise you'd have competitive parents jetwashing their kids' bikes in the U10s.
I'm nowhere near winning a race - come top half of the vets race and into the top third on a good day / suitable course. Hope to tickle the top 25% by the end of the season if I can race every weekend without getting ill. The top ten lads are properly strong in amateur terms, levels above me. I'd need to quit my job and get divorced to develop that level of fitness and even then probably couldn't.

I only started bike racing in my early 40s - like you played football when I was younger. Think that's the right way round to do it - football whilst you can still move.