Current Affairs Critically ill man is former Russian spy

[peteblue]

The "security" agencies didn't exactly contradict them. One hand washes the other.

The security services would never discredit the government, it’s an unwritten rule, unless Corbyn is in power then it’s open season.....

 

[JimmyJeffers]

I said active conflict, not full-scale conflict. Like the Cold War, not like WW2.

Oh is that what you meant. Fair enough. Doubt it though. We live in different times.

 

[dholliday]

Oh is that what you meant. Fair enough. Doubt it though. We live in different times.

We disagree here, Jimmy lad. I'd say we're very close to Cold War status already, Russia are already being sanctioned and more sanctions are being talked about. Then you've got Russia & the West getting in each other's way in Syria, resulting in some Russian deaths even. Plus now this poison scandal where the UN & the Brits are refusing to let Russia take part in any investigation while at the same time accusing them. Add the hundreds of media hitpieces pushing for more...and you're pretty close to active conflict if you ask me.

The World Cup will be interesting this summer...

 

[peteblue]

We disagree here, Jimmy lad. I'd say we're very close to Cold War status already, Russia are already being sanctioned and more sanctions are being talked about. Then you've got Russia & the West getting in each other's way in Syria, resulting in some Russian deaths even. Plus now this poison scandal where the UN & the Brits are refusing to let Russia take part in any investigation while at the same time accusing them. Add the hundreds of media hitpieces pushing for more...and you're pretty close to active conflict if you ask me.

The World Cup will be interesting this summer...

There is no Cold War. Russia just isn’t strong enough and it knows it. It needs good relations with the West so they can all spend their ill gotten billions somewhere nice. Russia and Putin want to be seen as a major player and superpower, unfortunately they are neither. Yes they and four other countries have the ability to destroy the planet, but they have no economic power and the more that the West develops alternative energy technology the more their perceived influence diminishes. Eventually they will join the EU, or do a deal with China, as that will be the only way they can save themselves from becoming a basket case......

 

[orchard]

The security services would never discredit the government, it’s an unwritten rule, unless Corbyn is in power then it’s open season.....

Just there to serve the interests of the wealthy then? Besides, it's open season when he's not in power too, not particularly effective are they?

 

[peteblue]

Just there to serve the interests of the wealthy then? Besides, it's open season when he's not in power too, not particularly effective are they?

The security services will always serve either the best interests of the country, or their own best interests, a bit like the BBC. But don’t underestimate them.....

 

[dholliday]

There is no Cold War. Russia just isn’t strong enough and it knows it. It needs good relations with the West so they can all spend their ill gotten billions somewhere nice. Russia and Putin want to be seen as a major player and superpower, unfortunately they are neither. Yes they and four other countries have the ability to destroy the planet, but they have no economic power and the more that the West develops alternative energy technology the more their perceived influence diminishes. Eventually they will join the EU, or do a deal with China, as that will be the only way they can save themselves from becoming a basket case......

Russia is strong enough to take charge of the Syria situation where the entire West has failed.

Putin is admired as one of the world's finest leaders. If the world's people had a poll, he'd probably be number one.

A few of their hackers (whether private or government-enabled) are able to put the fear into USA.

Russia also beat Englang to hosting the World Cup lol


In terms of local power & global influence, I'd say Russia are comfortably up there with China, US, Saudi & Israel. They're the 5 Big Players. The UK still boast a sizeable cultural influence on the world but their political power and global influence is clearly a level below that of Russia. You'd have to have the EU as a whole entity to match them.

 

[peteblue]

Russia is strong enough to take charge of the Syria situation where the entire West has failed.

Putin is admired as one of the world's finest leaders. If the world's people had a poll, he'd probably be number one.

A few of their hackers (whether private or government-enabled) are able to put the fear into USA.

Russia also beat Englang to hosting the World Cup lol


In terms of local power & global influence, I'd say Russia are comfortably up there with China, US, Saudi & Israel. They're the 5 Big Players. The UK still boast a sizeable cultural influence on the world but their political power and global influence is clearly a level below that of Russia. You'd have to have the EU as a whole entity to match them.

Hahahahahaha.......

 

[orchard]

The security services will always serve either the best interests of the country, or their own best interests, a bit like the BBC. But don’t underestimate them.....

'National Interest' is a vague, abused and over-politicised concept that's more suited to Ladybird publications.

 

[hullefc]

The detective sergeant got well enough to leave hospital. The Skripals are on the mend and the daughter hopes to leave hospiyal next week. But was it really the nerve agent, Novichok that made the Skripals and the detective sergeant ill?

“In an interview with Sky News, Gary Aitkenhead, chief executive of the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory (DSTL) in Wiltshire, said it had discovered that the nerve agent used in the attack was Novichok - but was not able to prove that the poison was created in Russia.

Unfortunately this is an extremely toxic substance. There is not, as far as we know, any antidote that you can use to negate the effects of it.

“We can and we have advised the hospital and the medics on the best course of trying to mitigate against the effects but this is an extremely toxic substance and not something that you can easily give something to somebody to help them recover.”

Odd that Atkinhead says that it was Novichok, the most deadly nerve agent known to man, and that there, 'is not, as far as we know, any antidote that you can use to negate the effects of it'. But the three have recovered. Strange. Maybe it isn't the most deadliest nerve agent. Or maybe what Porton Down tested didn't come from the bodies of those three people affected but from somewhere else, the front door maybe.

"The doctor, who asked not to be named, told the BBC she moved Ms Skripal into the recovery position and opened her airway, as others tended to her father.

She said she treated her for almost 30 minutes, saying there was no sign of any chemical agent on Ms Skripal's face or body.

The doctor said she had been worried she would be affected by the nerve agent, but added that she "feels fine".

This would explain why the consultant was able to say,

“Sir, Further to your report (“Poison Exposure Leaves Almost 40 Needing Treatment”, Mar 14), may I clarify that no patients have experienced symptoms of nerve-agent poisoning in Salisbury and there have only ever been three patients with significant poisoning. Several people have attended the emergency department concerned that they may have been exposed. None had symptoms of poisoning and none has needed treatment. Any blood tests performed have shown no abnormality. No member of the public has been contaminated by the agent involved.

STEPHEN DAVIES, Consultant in Emergency Medicine, Salisbury NHS Foundation Trust”

Maybe it is just an old fashioned mix up when two samples are sent to Porton Down. One gets lost and the one that is not from the body of those affected is analysed and wrongly attributed to the three people affected.

Maybe they were taken ill with salmonella or some other food poisoning.

 

[davids]

They were in intensive care you plank

Thanks again for another of your information gems.But the clue was in the word "deadly" They thankfully didn't die so...you get the general idea?

 

[davids]

More than 20 countries have expelled Russian diplomats over the UK’s position that Russia poisoned former double agent Sergei Skripal in Salisbury. Backing the allegation, foreign secretary Boris Johnson said that people from the UK’s Defence Science and Technology Laboratory “were absolutely categorical” that the Novichok nerve agent used to poison Skripal came from Russia.
But on 3 April, the chief executive of the UK’s government laboratory, headquartered at Porton Down, told Sky News that the agency has “not verified the precise source” of the nerve agent.

BBC buries

Two hours after Porton Down announced that the scientific evidence was inconclusive, BBC News at Six ignored the development. Instead, the programme attacked Jeremy Corbyn for attending a Passover feast with a Jewish group. With the apparent double standard in mind, social media is awash with complaints from viewers:
Dear BBC
Given the wall-to-wall coverage you relayed of the Skripal poisonings, the jingoism of May and Johnson and the attempts to humiliate Jeremy Corbyn, do you not think it is in the public interest to inform them of the latest developments at Porton Down? @BBCNews
— Twenty8Sixty8 (@WilliamPMack) April 4, 2018
This a resignation issue for Johnson? Apparently it isn't even newsworthy enough to put on the BBC 6 o'clock News. Uh @BBCNews? However, Corbyn accepting an invitation to spend Seder supper with his constituents on his day off, THAT'S TERRIBLE! #BBCBias https://t.co/qXQqViiBHf
— I Am Nothing (@AKA_Porlek) April 3, 2018
6’0clock @BBCNews decided not to mention the recent findings from Porton Down.
These findings are not insignificant.
Why not reported? Why??
— MagsNews (@MagsNews) April 3, 2018
Can @BBCNews explain why it failed to mention anything on the 6 o’clock news about today’s findings from Porton Down that the origin of the nerve agent used in Salisbury cannot be identified?
Could it be because today’s findings are seriously embarrassing for the government? pic.twitter.com/KeZFCTcxYv
— Socialist Voice (@SocialistVoice) April 3, 2018
After Skripal was poisoned, The Canary reported that there was no available evidence conclusively pointing to any culprit in the Russian spy case. Now, Porton Down has confirmed that the institution hasn’t attributed the nerve agent to any state. In response, the UK government says that Porton Down was “only one part of the intelligence picture”. The defence laboratory takes the same line.
Fast forward to BBC News at Ten, and the state broadcaster still appeared to be sidelining the revelation.
One journalist accused the BBC of dedicating much more time to Corbyn attending a Jewish dinner and Prince Philip having a hip operation than to the Porton Down development. And he criticised BBC News for failing to hold the foreign secretary to account for claiming Porton Down “categorically” said the nerve agent came from Russia:


Tonight's BBC News at 10:
– London shooting yesterday [4m40s]
– Corbyn DEFENDS (!) attending Jewish dinner [3m20s]
– Prince Philip's hip op #really [2m10s]
– Porton Down scientists can't confirm Salisbury nerve gas source [1m50s]
– Boris Johnson lied to the UK public [0m0s]

 

[peteblue]

The detective sergeant got well enough to leave hospital. The Skripals are on the mend and the daughter hopes to leave hospiyal next week. But was it really the nerve agent, Novichok that made the Skripals and the detective sergeant ill?

“In an interview with Sky News, Gary Aitkenhead, chief executive of the Defence Science and Technology Laboratory (DSTL) in Wiltshire, said it had discovered that the nerve agent used in the attack was Novichok - but was not able to prove that the poison was created in Russia.

Unfortunately this is an extremely toxic substance. There is not, as far as we know, any antidote that you can use to negate the effects of it.

“We can and we have advised the hospital and the medics on the best course of trying to mitigate against the effects but this is an extremely toxic substance and not something that you can easily give something to somebody to help them recover.”

Odd that Atkinhead says that it was Novichok, the most deadly nerve agent known to man, and that there, 'is not, as far as we know, any antidote that you can use to negate the effects of it'. But the three have recovered. Strange. Maybe it isn't the most deadliest nerve agent. Or maybe what Porton Down tested didn't come from the bodies of those three people affected but from somewhere else, the front door maybe.

"The doctor, who asked not to be named, told the BBC she moved Ms Skripal into the recovery position and opened her airway, as others tended to her father.

She said she treated her for almost 30 minutes, saying there was no sign of any chemical agent on Ms Skripal's face or body.

The doctor said she had been worried she would be affected by the nerve agent, but added that she "feels fine".

This would explain why the consultant was able to say,

“Sir, Further to your report (“Poison Exposure Leaves Almost 40 Needing Treatment”, Mar 14), may I clarify that no patients have experienced symptoms of nerve-agent poisoning in Salisbury and there have only ever been three patients with significant poisoning. Several people have attended the emergency department concerned that they may have been exposed. None had symptoms of poisoning and none has needed treatment. Any blood tests performed have shown no abnormality. No member of the public has been contaminated by the agent involved.

STEPHEN DAVIES, Consultant in Emergency Medicine, Salisbury NHS Foundation Trust”

Maybe it is just an old fashioned mix up when two samples are sent to Porton Down. One gets lost and the one that is not from the body of those affected is analysed and wrongly attributed to the three people affected.

Maybe they were taken ill with salmonella or some other food poisoning.

You really are flying the Russian flag for them.......

Meanwhile...” Dr Vil Mirzayanov, who worked on the weapon in the 80s, appeared on Newsnight to reveal how Sergei and Yulia Skripal could have survived the nerve agent attack.

'Probably, first of all, they got a non-lethal dose. They also got an injection of antidotes, it wasn't that sure they had a chance to survive,' he said.

He also suggested the dose could have been old or diluted, adding: 'To expose this Novichok gas to the door handle, they probably used solution. They diluted it with solvent. That already complicates the penetration process.

'It doesn't give it immediately to the blood flow. Such circumstance probably allowed the Skripals to survive.'

Newsnight presenter Evan Davis also asked about the apparently mocking Russian response to the poisoning.

The Russian went on: 'They need information from England, from English experts. It's a game, only part of a game. Mocking and the laughing. Don't trust these games, the Russians are pretending.”

 

[hullefc]

You really are flying the Russian flag for them.......

Meanwhile...” Dr Vil Mirzayanov, who worked on the weapon in the 80s, appeared on Newsnight to reveal how Sergei and Yulia Skripal could have survived the nerve agent attack.

'Probably, first of all, they got a non-lethal dose. They also got an injection of antidotes, it wasn't that sure they had a chance to survive,' he said.

He also suggested the dose could have been old or diluted, adding: 'To expose this Novichok gas to the door handle, they probably used solution. They diluted it with solvent. That already complicates the penetration process.

'It doesn't give it immediately to the blood flow. Such circumstance probably allowed the Skripals to survive.'

Newsnight presenter Evan Davis also asked about the apparently mocking Russian response to the poisoning.

The Russian went on: 'They need information from England, from English experts. It's a game, only part of a game. Mocking and the laughing. Don't trust these games, the Russians are pretending.”

Oh dear. Question the 'evidence' and the 'fly the Russian flag' imbecilic accusations fly.

Corbyn is 'Kremlin's useful idiot', says Boris Johnson - BBC News

Don't forget what Atkinhead said, 'no known antidote'. And the doctor, 'not treating anyone with nerve agent symptoms' Or the doctor on the scene'no chemicals on face or body'. All here and now.

Let's look at what he said. 'Non lethal/diluted applied to the door handle'. Non lethal that it took 4 hours to work, really. When it only takes such a miniscule amount to be so deadly. Was that the 'old' liquid form or powder? 'No known antidote' says the Porton Down scientist who is from the only known institute that is working on the only known sample of Novichok. Working on it to produce an antidote. But there is 'no known antidote' says the Porton Down scientist.

On the 'door handle'. We were informed that the Skripals and the detective sergeant were all 'exposed to this nerve agent'. First, they said that the detective sergeant was 'exposed at the scene' i.e the bench in Salisbury. But ITV interviewed a young man who said he was, 'the first person on the scene' and he never got infected or the doctor who treated the Skripals for 30 minutes. But this 'Novichok' is so intelligent that it can disregard all and sundry, except a detective sergeant who we were told was the 'first to respond' but was not quite correct.

When the line 'administered at the bench' was shown to have more holes in it than a Swiss cheese it then 'emerged' that the 'largest concentration was on the front door' This was a full 3 weeks after the 'poisoning' on the bench. The door would have had to have been touched by both the Skripals and the detective sergeant. When did the detective sergeant touch the front door? Why was he at the Skripals on the Sunday before he was taken ill? And taken ill at the bench as we were told he was the 'first to respond'? He couldn't have gone around after the Skripals were taken ill because he was taken ill at the scene, we were told.

The 'front door'. This 'emerged' on 28 March. The police never checked the front door until 3 weeks later. Now that is bumbling incompetence. Many police officers could have touched the door before the house and the front door were quarantined. None seemed to have been taken ill. Thank god. Thank god the postie didn't deliver any post as he may have touched the front door, where the largest concentration was. The front door is still on its hinges and has not been taken away as the bench was, as that 'may be used as evidence in a trial'. But not the front door. The authorities couldn't wait to show the bench being cut with a grinder, sparks flying and being 'taken away'. But no such show for the front door where there is the 'largest concentration of Novichok' - 'old and diluted' of course because that way the government and the state controlled bbc can still run 'it was Putin/the Kremlin'. And to 'prove' that they get a scientist on 'who worked on it'.

According to the Consultant at Salisbury hospital, the Skripals and the detective sergeant weren't taken ill by the 'nerve agent'. 'Old or diluted' it seems.

“Sir, Further to your report (“Poison Exposure Leaves Almost 40 Needing Treatment”, Mar 14), may I clarify that no patients have experienced symptoms of nerve-agent poisoning in Salisbury and there have only ever been three patients with significant poisoning. Several people have attended the emergency department concerned that they may have been exposed. None had symptoms of poisoning and none has needed treatment. Any blood tests performed have shown no abnormality. No member of the public has been contaminated by the agent involved.

STEPHEN DAVIES, Consultant in Emergency Medicine, Salisbury NHS Foundation Trust”

As far as Evan Davis 'mocking'. This seems very very like Johnson's 'the Russians are guilty because of their smug and sarcastic' response'. And we all know Johnson is out of his depth with this job and can only mutter the ramblings of an imbecile. I would suggest Johnson sums himself up perfectly well with his classic "mutton-headed, old mugwump", if I knew what it means.

 

[peteblue]

Oh dear. Question the 'evidence' and the 'fly the Russian flag' imbecilic accusations fly.

Corbyn is 'Kremlin's useful idiot', says Boris Johnson - BBC News

Don't forget what Atkinhead said, 'no known antidote'. And the doctor, 'not treating anyone with nerve agent symptoms' Or the doctor on the scene'no chemicals on face or body'. All here and now.

Let's look at what he said. 'Non lethal/diluted applied to the door handle'. Non lethal that it took 4 hours to work, really. When it only takes such a miniscule amount to be so deadly. Was that the 'old' liquid form or powder? 'No known antidote' says the Porton Down scientist who is from the only known institute that is working on the only known sample of Novichok. Working on it to produce an antidote. But there is 'no known antidote' says the Porton Down scientist.

On the 'door handle'. We were informed that the Skripals and the detective sergeant were all 'exposed to this nerve agent'. First, they said that the detective sergeant was 'exposed at the scene' i.e the bench in Salisbury. But ITV interviewed a young man who said he was, 'the first person on the scene' and he never got infected or the doctor who treated the Skripals for 30 minutes. But this 'Novichok' is so intelligent that it can disregard all and sundry, except a detective sergeant who we were told was the 'first to respond' but was not quite correct.

When the line 'administered at the bench' was shown to have more holes in it than a Swiss cheese it then 'emerged' that the 'largest concentration was on the front door' This was a full 3 weeks after the 'poisoning' on the bench. The door would have had to have been touched by both the Skripals and the detective sergeant. When did the detective sergeant touch the front door? Why was he at the Skripals on the Sunday before he was taken ill? And taken ill at the bench as we were told he was the 'first to respond'? He couldn't have gone around after the Skripals were taken ill because he was taken ill at the scene, we were told.

The 'front door'. This 'emerged' on 28 March. The police never checked the front door until 3 weeks later. Now that is bumbling incompetence. Many police officers could have touched the door before the house and the front door were quarantined. None seemed to have been taken ill. Thank god. Thank god the postie didn't deliver any post as he may have touched the front door, where the largest concentration was. The front door is still on its hinges and has not been taken away as the bench was, as that 'may be used as evidence in a trial'. But not the front door. The authorities couldn't wait to show the bench being cut with a grinder, sparks flying and being 'taken away'. But no such show for the front door where there is the 'largest concentration of Novichok' - 'old and diluted' of course because that way the government and the state controlled bbc can still run 'it was Putin/the Kremlin'. And to 'prove' that they get a scientist on 'who worked on it'.

According to the Consultant at Salisbury hospital, the Skripals and the detective sergeant weren't taken ill by the 'nerve agent'. 'Old or diluted' it seems.

“Sir, Further to your report (“Poison Exposure Leaves Almost 40 Needing Treatment”, Mar 14), may I clarify that no patients have experienced symptoms of nerve-agent poisoning in Salisbury and there have only ever been three patients with significant poisoning. Several people have attended the emergency department concerned that they may have been exposed. None had symptoms of poisoning and none has needed treatment. Any blood tests performed have shown no abnormality. No member of the public has been contaminated by the agent involved.

STEPHEN DAVIES, Consultant in Emergency Medicine, Salisbury NHS Foundation Trust”

As far as Evan Davis 'mocking'. This seems very very like Johnson's 'the Russians are guilty because of their smug and sarcastic' response'. And we all know Johnson is out of his depth with this job and can only mutter the ramblings of an imbecile. I would suggest Johnson sums himself up perfectly well with his classic "mutton-headed, old mugwump", if I knew what it means.

Don’t worry, it will all come out eventually. One way or another we will find the truth, which obviously you won’t accept.......