Current Affairs Critically ill man is former Russian spy

[tsubaki]

It just comes naturally to the Man. On the one hand I do feel that he genuinely doesn’t want any kind of disagreement with Russia, unfortunately being completely naive his only strategy is to always give in

I appreciate this is what the commentariat and the media are saying, but it is completely arse about face.

If the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons finds that Russia has breached the Chemical Weapons Convention then the consequences will be severe; severe sanctions would follow and they would almost certainly be suspended from the Convention (which would have a massive impact on their economy). To do that requires a set process, one that we (and they) have signed up to. If we aren't going to use that process (and it is still unclear whether we are; May said we had notified the OPCW that Russia had breached it and asked the Police to let the OPCW verify our findings - which is not the process) then we should be told why.

Of course, one of the reasons why we might not be going down the proper OPCW route is that precisely because sanctions would follow. If you look at what May announced, there is a remarkable amount of things said rather than things done (the list is from the Guardian):

The expulsion of 23 Russian diplomats - this is something at least

The government will enact a new targeted power to detain people suspected of hostile state activity at borders - is anyone else alarmed by the fact that this isn't already done?

The UK will increase checks on private flights, customs and freight from Russia - have we not actually been checking them then?

The UK will freeze Russian assets if there is evidence they are being used to compromise British security - if there was evidence Russian (or anyones) assets were being used to do this then we could already seize them under existing legislation

There will be legislation to protect the UK from hostile state activity - how is this not an admission of utter failure if they don't already have the means to do this most basic of tasks?

The government will look at whether new counter-espionage powers are needed - anyone would think that trying to murder two people wasn't already illegal

The UK has suspended all high-level diplomatic contact with Russia - no visits to Goodison for you, Lavrov

Then when you add the way she described how they would deal with the looted money that is alread over here - ie:

Led by the National Crime Agency, we will continue to bring all the capabilities of UK law enforcement to bear against serious criminals and corrupt elites. There is no place for these people, or their money, in our country.

... its fairly clear that she has backed away from any real or effective measures; to continue to do what we have been doing against serious criminals and corrupt elites would be that we will allow them to buy our posh flats, send their kids to our private schools, use our court system, buy our citizenship and donate to our politicians.

In light of all that, I think the reason why Corbyn is being beasted is because he has proposed to do something about it.

 

[peteblue]

I appreciate this is what the commentariat and the media are saying, but it is completely arse about face.

If the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons finds that Russia has breached the Chemical Weapons Convention then the consequences will be severe; severe sanctions would follow and they would almost certainly be suspended from the Convention (which would have a massive impact on their economy). To do that requires a set process, one that we (and they) have signed up to. If we aren't going to use that process (and it is still unclear whether we are; May said we had notified the OPCW that Russia had breached it and asked the Police to let the OPCW verify our findings - which is not the process) then we should be told why.

Of course, one of the reasons why we might not be going down the proper OPCW route is that precisely because sanctions would follow. If you look at what May announced, there is a remarkable amount of things said rather than things done (the list is from the Guardian):

The expulsion of 23 Russian diplomats - this is something at least

The government will enact a new targeted power to detain people suspected of hostile state activity at borders - is anyone else alarmed by the fact that this isn't already done?

The UK will increase checks on private flights, customs and freight from Russia - have we not actually been checking them then?

The UK will freeze Russian assets if there is evidence they are being used to compromise British security - if there was evidence Russian (or anyones) assets were being used to do this then we could already seize them under existing legislation

There will be legislation to protect the UK from hostile state activity - how is this not an admission of utter failure if they don't already have the means to do this most basic of tasks?

The government will look at whether new counter-espionage powers are needed - anyone would think that trying to murder two people wasn't already illegal

The UK has suspended all high-level diplomatic contact with Russia - no visits to Goodison for you, Lavrov

Then when you add the way she described how they would deal with the looted money that is alread over here - ie:



... its fairly clear that she has backed away from any real or effective measures; to continue to do what we have been doing against serious criminals and corrupt elites would be that we will allow them to buy our posh flats, send their kids to our private schools, use our court system, buy our citizenship and donate to our politicians.

In light of all that, I think the reason why Corbyn is being beasted is because he has proposed to do something about it.

Well that is another way of looking at it, that Corbyn is doing it to be even harder on Russia. I’m not convinced tbh....

 

[tsubaki]

Well that is another way of looking at it, that Corbyn is doing it to be even harder on Russia. I’m not convinced tbh....

I am not sure harder is the word for what he is trying to do - "more effective" would be better.

 

[Joey66]

So it wouldn't be an act of state aggression if you're a soldier and you are exposed to nerve agents after being told it was ''medical'' research?

''Oh, thank God I was poisoned by my own side rather than the Soviets''.

Utter rubbish your twisting the facts chemical weapons as disgusting as they are since the 1914 war - for someone to use them in another country's soil is very serious, and if it's Russian made they should be doing their best to investigate it- end of!

 

[Joey66]

I am not sure harder is the word for what he is trying to do - "more effective" would be better.

Would he sit around for a cup of tea with Putin and discuss us banning trident?

 

[tsubaki]

Would he sit around for a cup of tea with Putin and discuss us banning trident?

Putin would be far more likely to poison Corbyn than he would May; Corbyn would have cost him and his mates hundreds of millions of pounds.

 

[Pejic300]

You didn't read the link. The British army tested chemical weapons on their own troops!

You want it to be the Russians in this case because the alternatives are too murky, far-reaching and labyrinthine. And of course the Prime Minister says that's the case. You are just the kind of punter they love.

 

[peteblue]

I am not sure harder is the word for what he is trying to do - "more effective" would be better.

Perhaps, but Russia was pushing for the path that Corbyn repeated, so I expect they had worked out how to get around it or buy some time......

 

[Pejic300]

Utter rubbish your twisting the facts chemical weapons as disgusting as they are since the 1914 war - for someone to use them in another country's soil is very serious, and if it's Russian made they should be doing their best to investigate it- end of!

You didn't read the link. The British army tested chemical weapons on their own troops!

You want it to be the Russians in this case because the alternatives are too murky, far-reaching and labyrinthine. And of course the Prime Minister says that's the case. You are just the kind of punter they love.

 

[tsubaki]

Perhaps, but Russia was pushing for the path that Corbyn repeated, so I expect they had worked out how to get around it or buy some time......

There were important differences - what the Russians said was that we had to provide samples and there would be a joint investigation (which is not what the CWC says) whereas what Corbyn said was that we should follow the procedure in Article 9 (2) of the CWC, which requires us where possible to discuss the matter first with the Russians and then refer it to the OPCW if their answers didn't satisfy.

Now the Guardian are reporting that our Government have said that "while it has the option of taking the case to the OPCW, it is under no obligation to do so", which should really set alarm bells ringing whoever you are and whatever side of British politics you are on, because there is absolutely no valid reason not to.

 

[Joey66]

Putin would be far more likely to poison Corbyn than he would May; Corbyn would have cost him and his mates hundreds of millions of pounds.

lol

 

[Kurt.]

Who told you that Joe.

He read it

 

[Jib in lad]

 

[orchard]

Any rational person would.

 

[hullefc]

There were important differences - what the Russians said was that we had to provide samples and there would be a joint investigation (which is not what the CWC says) whereas what Corbyn said was that we should follow the procedure in Article 9 (2) of the CWC, which requires us where possible to discuss the matter first with the Russians and then refer it to the OPCW if their answers didn't satisfy.

Now the Guardian are reporting that our Government have said that "while it has the option of taking the case to the OPCW, it is under no obligation to do so", which should really set alarm bells ringing whoever you are and whatever side of British politics you are on, because there is absolutely no valid reason not to.

Because the evidence may not point to Russia but some other state or persons.