Cricket

[Ivo]

It’s many a year since I’ve witnessed such an inept wicket keeping performance at Test level. It’s a big gamble to pick someone because they are a decent middle order batsman but ordinary keeper. I’d give Foakes a game, Buttlers’s confidence with the gloves looks shot.

Agreed. Foakes or bairstow for me. Both better keepers, and buttler isn't getting runs (which he's in there for).

 

[catcherintherye]

I wouldn't fancy any openers in the world in these conditions against the new ball with this attack but our openers aren't even on the problem radar for me, doing well but are huge lbw candidates against this top quality attack. Helpful conditions, the new ball and top level seamers, they're a cut above anything we've faced this summer, this attack is as good as it gets in these conditions. Facing the new ball is hugely different from later, that's the red zone when wickets fall.

I think we can separate Broad's recent batting from that of Archer or Anderson, I do think he has his confidence back and he's better just going for it than defending. He's still a ten but in our weak line up probably at least 9th best.

I think Bess is still work in progress but think has bowled well at times this match, he was unfortunate first time round but was impressive after tea tonight. I don't agree one bit really on Bess costing us the game, not at all in fact. Buttler missed San twice on 45 off Bess, he made 156 ,- to then put it on Bess is perverse imo, They're the most costly incidents and where it was lost, not boundaries afterwards.

Hes 2 for about 120 in this game. Pakistan's spinners were 6 for 79. That's the difference.

 

[Cool_Blue]

No issues with the rest and rotation (and makes sense) but I wouldn't play Bess currently. Hes had an awful game, and if England dont win this for me it will be squarely on his head.

I dont think Archer/Broad are brilliant 9 or 10s but they are handy enough. The same as Wood. It's the least of Englands problems though. I don't fancy the openers at all.

Bess is nothing special for me as an off spinner, but you can hardly blame him for England being in this position, it’s Buttler’s blunders that have been so costly. What was Shan Masood on when missed by Buttler? And he went on to make 156, in a relatively low scoring match.

 

[catcherintherye]

He had about 4 chances missed by butterfingers Buttler though.

He had 2 chances. It happens, neither were straight forward. Hes gone at nearly 4 an over, and in prime spin conditions has bowled poorly. He cant keep blaming Buttler for his own poor performance.

 

[catcherintherye]

Bess is nothing special for me as an off spinner, but you can hardly blame him for England being in this position, it’s Buttler’s blunders that have been so costly. What was Shan Masood on when missed by Buttler? And he went on to make 156, in a relatively low scoring match.

Not the easiest chance. We can all make a mistake or two.

Bess has bowled over 30 overs in friendly conditions and has taken only 2 wickets and a couple of other chances. It's not good enough. Hes been completely out bowled by both of the opponents spinners, and that's the difference for me.

 

[Minimeister]

Pakistan still a massive 4-5 to win this Test.

 

[catcherintherye]

I wouldn't fancy any openers in the world in these conditions against the new ball with this attack but our openers aren't even on the problem radar for me, doing well but are huge lbw candidates against this top quality attack. Helpful conditions, the new ball and top level seamers, they're a cut above anything we've faced this summer, this attack is as good as it gets in these conditions. Facing the new ball is hugely different from later, that's the red zone when wickets fall.

I think we can separate Broad's recent batting from that of Archer or Anderson, I do think he has his confidence back and he's better just going for it than defending. He's still a ten but in our weak line up probably at least 9th best.

I think Bess is still work in progress but think has bowled well at times this match, he was unfortunate first time round but was impressive after tea tonight. I don't agree one bit really on Bess costing us the game, not at all in fact. Buttler missed San twice on 45 off Bess, he made 156 ,- to then put it on Bess is perverse imo, They're the most costly incidents and where it was lost, not boundaries afterwards.

As for the openers, they're not good enough. I can have they're the best we have, but in these conditions they're not good enough. They're not side on when they go forward. They fall over their heads. If you play in condition where the ball moves, it's a major problem.

For me Crawley has better technique than both. It may take him a bit more time, but that's just my take on it.

Maybe Sibley and Burns can score well against mediocre attacks in favourable conditions, but in these conditions I just dont see it mate.

More broadly I think England have completely lost the plot around their batting. Weve got obsessed with people batting time, and playing balls. You need to go through the gears as a batsman, and have the ability to put pressure on the opposition bowler, not just let them settle into a line and length and set you up.

The worst two culprits for me are the openers. You never feel they will punish bowlers. Compare that to Pope, who admittedly is exceptional, but see how he can be positive without being reckless.

Overnight I'd have said to Pope, and particularly Buttler to be busy and keep that tempo. Yet they went the other way. Both of them got unplayable balls, but they allowed the bowlers to bowl at them.

So yes. It's really frustrating. We seem to not understand there are fears between 1 and 5, and you can move from gear to say gear 4.

I'm not saying you chuck them immediately. However, I'll be surprised if Burns or Sibley make 1 substantial score between them this series. I dont feel that with Stokes, Pope, Root, Crawley or even Buttler (if he was freer).

 

[Cool_Blue]

Our batting is unreliable atm to say the least. Root‘s form is very suspect currently. Crawley has to come back in. If Stokes can bowl in the next match, I think I’d also leave Archer out.

Oh, and the ‘no third man’ thing...... I sound like a broken record on this but if you’re not going to have one, at least plug the gap with a 4th slip. The amount of cheap boundaries given away at third man is criminal.

 

[Cool_Blue]

Not the easiest chance. We can all make a mistake or two.

Bess has bowled over 30 overs in friendly conditions and has taken only 2 wickets and a couple of other chances. It's not good enough. Hes been completely out bowled by both of the opponents spinners, and that's the difference for me.

Yes, it was TWO. Masood went on to score a 100 more.

 

[catcherintherye]

Yes, it was TWO. Masood went on to score a 100 more.

Buttlers keeping has generally been very good though.

 

[Minimeister]

As for the openers, they're not good enough. I can have they're the best we have, but in these conditions they're not good enough. They're not side on when they go forward. They fall over their heads. If you play in condition where the ball moves, it's a major problem.

For me Crawley has better technique than both. It may take him a bit more time, but that's just my take on it.

Maybe Sibley and Burns can score well against mediocre attacks in favourable conditions, but in these conditions I just dont see it mate.

More broadly I think England have completely lost the plot around their batting. Weve got obsessed with people batting time, and playing balls. You need to go through the gears as a batsman, and have the ability to put pressure on the opposition bowler, not just let them settle into a line and length and set you up.

The worst two culprits for me are the openers. You never feel they will punish bowlers. Compare that to Pope, who admittedly is exceptional, but see how he can be positive without being reckless.

Overnight I'd have said to Pope, and particularly Buttler to be busy and keep that tempo. Yet they went the other way. Both of them got unplayable balls, but they allowed the bowlers to bowl at them.

So yes. It's really frustrating. We seem to not understand there are fears between 1 and 5, and you can move from gear to say gear 4.

I'm not saying you chuck them immediately. However, I'll be surprised if Burns or Sibley make 1 substantial score between them this series. I dont feel that with Stokes, Pope, Root, Crawley or even Buttler (if he was freer).

Find it absolutely baffling that an international class batsman can't bat to the conditions/state of the game. You'd think that would be one of the first things they had that got them there.

 

[ToffeeTim]

England need these 2 wickets almost straight away tomorrow morning. Even another 30 runs would be crucial. We're already close to the edge of what I think England can chase but they've given themselves a sniff. Someone will have to make a hundred or two players make 70 or 80 and that's gonna be extremely hard on that track.

 

[Chris O'Connor]

As for the openers, they're not good enough. I can have they're the best we have, but in these conditions they're not good enough. They're not side on when they go forward. They fall over their heads. If you play in condition where the ball moves, it's a major problem.

For me Crawley has better technique than both. It may take him a bit more time, but that's just my take on it.

Maybe Sibley and Burns can score well against mediocre attacks in favourable conditions, but in these conditions I just dont see it mate.

More broadly I think England have completely lost the plot around their batting. Weve got obsessed with people batting time, and playing balls. You need to go through the gears as a batsman, and have the ability to put pressure on the opposition bowler, not just let them settle into a line and length and set you up.

The worst two culprits for me are the openers. You never feel they will punish bowlers. Compare that to Pope, who admittedly is exceptional, but see how he can be positive without being reckless.

Overnight I'd have said to Pope, and particularly Buttler to be busy and keep that tempo. Yet they went the other way. Both of them got unplayable balls, but they allowed the bowlers to bowl at them.

So yes. It's really frustrating. We seem to not understand there are fears between 1 and 5, and you can move from gear to say gear 4.

I'm not saying you chuck them immediately. However, I'll be surprised if Burns or Sibley make 1 substantial score between them this series. I dont feel that with Stokes, Pope, Root, Crawley or even Buttler (if he was freer).

Opening the innings is not batting in the middle order, it's apples and pears. A brand new dukes ball, seaming and moving in helpful conditions by very skilful bowlers, Abbas reminds me of Philander at his slower pace but deadly in his control accuracy and just enough movement. As I say I agree with you in that they may find it a monumental struggle and are extremely likely to fail, but then in these conditions any openers in the world would imo, even the very best current ones you could name. I think all of them would be unlikely to make many here. Any opener scoring 50 would be equal to a century or far more on here against this attack. England's bowlers bowled too short on day one and even then San had two lives on 45, he took full advantage but he should have been out - but even against the less accurate and slightly too short on length bowling, the 45 was exceptional. I just don't agree with the comparisons and think middle order batsmen moved up the order on the whole struggle and certainly don't thrive as they have a newer ball. Pope was bathed far too high in the order when first tried without success but has now found his middle order slot.

Root hates batting at three, has far better numbers at four - it's not just a mental thing because your far more likely to be in very early at three. He even tried to bat like an opener last innings cutting shots and risk. You can have different styles of opener a Sehwag or Warner are exceptiinal, not the norm, they're world class not just in the time they play but other eras too. Alistair Cook is far more the common template it's a specialist role and should be judged within those parameters.

 

[Chris O'Connor]

Pakistan Spinners took 6 for 79. Bess has taken 2 for 120.

As Ivo said, three missed chances of Bess, he has a lot to learn but you can look beyond stats, having three missed of your bowling has an effect not only on the stats but the way you subsequently bowl. Two spinners can also play off each other like a partnership or two great quicks. His figures don't reflect the chances made,.

Bess does still need better consistency and control, England are looking long term to build s world class team and have confidence the work in progress is worth it in the long run. These comparisons however, don't look behind the figures at chances missed, how many were missed of their spinners?

 

[Eggs]

...hope England tie up this innings quickly as it could be a decent finish. Pakistan’s attack looks very good, though, so betting odds of 4/5 looks very decent.