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catcherintherye said:
I don't think Engand are as far behind as people say. The ball gets softer and it does get a bit easier. These 2 looked in nice touch yesterday, and even though they are bowlers, there is a bit of batting to come. Woakes, and Bess are capable, and Archer/Broad are dangerous.

I also think, while talented outside the opening 2 bowlers they wil give you lots of scoring opportunities I much prefer Englan when they are positive and they need to be positive agaist those two lads, to put more pressure on. If they get close to Pakistan, it's an open game.
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Woakes is definitely capable and can be a proper batsman if he can rediscover his form. Bess can hang around a bit but isn't anything like a test match eight. Archer has just begun his test career but am afraid at this level looks every bit a number 11 and has the lowest average of all (8.2) from 15:innings, even including James Anderson (9.7). Broad did well against a tired looking Windies side but has been desperate since his blow on the helmet.

To sum up Woakes is capable of better than he's shown recently, Bess better than an 11 and the other three rabbits.
 
davids said:
Kiss of death post.
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Yeah it was but tbf to the batsmen, most have been got out from top class bowling. That one lifted from nowhere and Pope was helpless. Stokes was beaten by a cracker. Root batting at three when it should be four, and trying to play an out of character 'solid foundation innings' with the openers dismissed was the only one really that didn't need to play.

The tail needs to wag, but it's far too long and the lower order runs that have served us so well in recent years' home tests look impossible. Having a lower order who can bat has been the difference in recent years as they haven't lost a home series. (I don't count two tests as a series)
 
Chris O'Connor said:
Woakes is definitely capable and can be a proper batsman if he can rediscover his form. Bess can hang around a bit but isn't anything like a test match eight. Archer has just begun his test career but am afraid at this level looks every bit a number 11 and has the lowest average of all (8.2) from 15:innings, even including James Anderson (9.7). Broad did well against a tired looking Windies side but has been desperate since his blow on the helmet.

To sum up Woakes is capable of better than he's shown recently, Bess better than an 11 and the other three rabbits.
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It's a funny game really, I see it a bit differently. Woakes struggles against the short ball but his front foot technique is very good. He's looked busy today.

I think Bess looks quite a complete batsman as well. I think he could get to being a 7 over time. That should be his ambition.

Archer and Broad are hitters. Look they're not massively competent batsman, but at 9/10 they are pretty useful.

Butler is looking quite nice here too, but would prefer to be more busy.
 
Chris O'Connor said:
Yeah it was but tbf to the batsmen, most have been got out from top class bowling. That one lifted from nowhere and Pope was helpless. Stokes was beaten by a cracker. Root batting at three when it should be four, and trying to play an out of character 'solid foundation innings' with the openers dismissed was the only one really that didn't need to play.

The tail needs to wag, but it's far too long and the lower order runs that have served us so well in recent years' home tests look impossible. Having a lower order who can bat has been the difference in recent years as they haven't lost a home series. (I don't count two tests as a series)
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I think England need to be positive. They is always a ball with your name on it with this attack, but put pressure back on the bowler.
 
catcherintherye said:
It's a funny game really, I see it a bit differently.

I think Bess looks quite a complete batsman as well. I think he could get to being a 7 over time. That should be his ambition.

Archer and Broad are hitters. Look they're not massively competent batsman, but at 9/10 they are pretty useful.
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I must admit to seeing Bess as just too high in the order and don't at all share your confidence in his batting ability, he's not a rabbit and certainly can punish a weak or tired attack as against the Windies, especially the second test, but there are plenty of nines better than him. He's no better than a nine for me.

Archer, fifteen innings and an average of 8.2 says he misses more than he hits tbh. Broad is possibly a useful 10 or 11, Archer shouldn't be 9 it's not an ODI - he's shown absolutely nothing with the bat.
 
Chris O'Connor said:
I must admit to seeing Bess as just too high in the order and don't at all share your confidence in his batting ability, he's not a rabbit and certainly can punish a weak or tired attack as against the Windies, especially the second test, but there are plenty of nines better than him. He's no better than a nine for me.

Archer, fifteen innings and an average of 8.2 says he misses more than he hits tbh. Broad is possibly a useful 10 or 11, Archer shouldn't be 9 it's not an ODI - he's shown absolutely nothing with the bat.
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I think Broad is lot better than a useful number 11 mate.
 
This has been pathetic, everything since the team selection, seems like none of these guys know how to play eachother, so many near run outs and mix ups.

Why is archer still so high?
 
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