GrumpyBlue
Player Valuation: £8m
77 all out
Cricket
- Thread starter summerisle
- Start date
77 all out
To be fair, so do Stokes and Buttler.
LOL
toffeejack
Player Valuation: £100m
And they've done well recently in tests.
Sam Curran is a very good cricketer. But I'm sorry. He is never an opening bowler. That is such powder puff bowling. On a bouncy wicket in Barbados.
Something has gone very wrong somewhere.
Something has gone very wrong somewhere.
Our bowlers work their balls off to bowl the Windies out for not a huge total, and our batsmen respond with one of worst England collapses ever, and there's been lots to choose from.
You can't just tell how peed off Jimmy is to be back on the field already.
God help our pathetically weak batting line-up when we have to face the Aussie quicks in the summer on pitches that will do a bit. And it certainly won't help that England continue to employ Mark Ramprakash as batting coach.
It's the third session on day two and this Test is already lost. I've no idea why they didn't make us follow-on while we were down and out. I know enforcing the follow-on has gone out of fashion thesedays but it's not like their bowlers would've been tired.
You can't just tell how peed off Jimmy is to be back on the field already.
God help our pathetically weak batting line-up when we have to face the Aussie quicks in the summer on pitches that will do a bit. And it certainly won't help that England continue to employ Mark Ramprakash as batting coach.
It's the third session on day two and this Test is already lost. I've no idea why they didn't make us follow-on while we were down and out. I know enforcing the follow-on has gone out of fashion thesedays but it's not like their bowlers would've been tired.
toffeejack
Player Valuation: £100m
Buttler's dolly drop off hetmayer is the difference in this match.
Chris O'Connor
Player Valuation: £35m
England's recurring West Indian horror show of being blown away for next to nothing by a battery of hostile pace and bounce came back to haunt them in full force, the scariest nightmare they just can't shake off.
The tall West Indian pace merchants bowled with speed, hostility and precision maximising the unevenness of the second day pitch. Memories of 46 in Trinidad in 94 or the 51 in Kingston in 09 came flooding back as Kemar Roach struck in spectacular fashion in the first hour after lunch. It was as if they had summoned the spirits of old and we were watching archive footage of them in their pomp, in the 80s, their golden age. England subsided from a manageable 44-2 to a miserable 49-7 in the space of just eight overs, and it was right there where this match was won and lost.
The pitch had been heavily watered before the start of the test meaning it was tacky and slower until the evening session on the first day, that was the time to bat. By the evening session the tackiness had gone to be replaced by bounce and pace and Anderson took advantage. Today was a continuation of that as all batsmen found it tough and sixteen wickets fell.
The West Indian batting has always been their weakest point in recent times as their pace attack has been a potent weapon for some time, but with runs on the board this attack can do real damage. Away form on spinning Bangladeshi wickets can be pretty much disregarded as this attack has showed just how they're developing into one of world’s best pace attacks, one capable of competing in all conditions, apart from perhaps the subcontinent, but easily most effective in its own.
For England, hindsight is all knowing and knowledge hard earned, the selection should have included four seamers and Broad would have played. It's often a decent clue to look at the home sides squad and then decide what sort of pitches they would prefer, possibly more pace and bounce and not so much spin?
Obviously the toss was a major advantage but Joe can hardly complain of that after his recent run.
The tall West Indian pace merchants bowled with speed, hostility and precision maximising the unevenness of the second day pitch. Memories of 46 in Trinidad in 94 or the 51 in Kingston in 09 came flooding back as Kemar Roach struck in spectacular fashion in the first hour after lunch. It was as if they had summoned the spirits of old and we were watching archive footage of them in their pomp, in the 80s, their golden age. England subsided from a manageable 44-2 to a miserable 49-7 in the space of just eight overs, and it was right there where this match was won and lost.
The pitch had been heavily watered before the start of the test meaning it was tacky and slower until the evening session on the first day, that was the time to bat. By the evening session the tackiness had gone to be replaced by bounce and pace and Anderson took advantage. Today was a continuation of that as all batsmen found it tough and sixteen wickets fell.
The West Indian batting has always been their weakest point in recent times as their pace attack has been a potent weapon for some time, but with runs on the board this attack can do real damage. Away form on spinning Bangladeshi wickets can be pretty much disregarded as this attack has showed just how they're developing into one of world’s best pace attacks, one capable of competing in all conditions, apart from perhaps the subcontinent, but easily most effective in its own.
For England, hindsight is all knowing and knowledge hard earned, the selection should have included four seamers and Broad would have played. It's often a decent clue to look at the home sides squad and then decide what sort of pitches they would prefer, possibly more pace and bounce and not so much spin?
Obviously the toss was a major advantage but Joe can hardly complain of that after his recent run.
Chris O'Connor
Player Valuation: £35m
Here it's extremely tough facing tall, fast and hostile bowling, at times exceeding 90mph, on a wicket where uneven patches gave unpredictable bounce, some rearing up while others kept down. The ball is on to you that much quicker and there is no time at all to react or cope with the vagaries of the surface.
Shannon Gabriel's ball that dismissed Curran was clocked at comfortably over 90 and gave him nowhere to go, but even Ben Stokes and Anderson look dangerous. After the first two sessions of day one when the tackiness had gone the pitch changed completely in nature, which made making runs early on day one essential.
On this pitch pace is the key and West Indies have plenty.
Shannon Gabriel's ball that dismissed Curran was clocked at comfortably over 90 and gave him nowhere to go, but even Ben Stokes and Anderson look dangerous. After the first two sessions of day one when the tackiness had gone the pitch changed completely in nature, which made making runs early on day one essential.
On this pitch pace is the key and West Indies have plenty.
How terrible are England. West Indies with a lead of over 600 runs and yet to lose a wicket today.
toffeejack
Player Valuation: £100m
This is actually more embarrassing than the loss to Bangladesh. Two bowlers contribution centuries and double centuries when their batsmen lost 5-9.
Chris O'Connor
Player Valuation: £35m
Or even far less embarrassing, although tbf Bangladesh at home on spinning wickets are not such an easy touch as they once were perceived to be. West Indies struggled over there as did we on our last tour.
They should have played a lot better today but the game was 100% lost yesterday, you don't concede such a huge first innings lead and then get anything out of it. So although they could and should be professional and play a lot better today of course, the game is played as much in the mind as with their skills, and if it's unredeemable and completely gone whatever you do, that vital edge you need is inevitably lost and poor cricket invariably results.
They shouldn't go back to the bad old days and change for the sake of it, but pick the best available even if it does involve ten of this eleven - which with Broad for Rashid it possibly will, they just need to adapt and play a lot better. England have lost badly before, they were hammered by India in a test match on their way to the 4-1 win. They do have a poor performance in them even when winning a series by such a margin.
I also think a lot is made of home advantage and it is absolutely a major advantage but the toss can arguably be even more so. England have been on a remarkable run coinciding with Joe's amazing run of luck with the toss .
Australia, despite not being very good at all without their big stars won comfortably, against the Indians who had a far better side, in the only test they won the toss.
Perfect is home advantage, winning the toss and making the correct call on what to do. This time Holder held all the cards.
The only time India beat us last summer was when Root made a really poor decision and bowled first handing the advantage to the opposition.
In some ways this test mirrors the Indians at Lords, the wrong team picked and a crucial toss lost and England absolutely murdered them. This time it was England up against it with an almighty advantage conceded at the toss and given away with the selection.
Chris O'Connor
Player Valuation: £35m
With West Indies 100% certain to go one up I suspect we may well get flat tracks in the last two tests, a bowler to hit the deck hard and make something happen would have been ideal.
Unfortunately the promising fast bowler from Warwickshire, Ollie Stone was on this tour but had to come home as he suffered a stress fracture. As a replacement they called up Mark Wood, but he doesn't really do it for me as far as test cricket is concerned. I recall the last chance he got he was wayward and lacking in raw pace thanks to a catalog of injuries.
They like to use Ben Stokes in that enforcer role, hitting the deck hard to get extra bounce and in fairness he has been excellent when not overused, having wicket taking success both in this match and in the last test in Sri Lanka.
The problem here has been with Sam Curran and Adil Rashid - the two men they've picked to provide 'variety in the attack' and resulting in the painful omission of Broad, a mistake which is all too obvious now.
I personally think they've gone a little bit overboard with this idea that we MUST have 3 or 4 different styles of bowler and in doing so, have lost sight of a bowler who has served us very, very well - Stuart Broad in this case.
Here, if you take away Rashid and add Broad - Root has 2 expert new ball bowlers, a left armer, a gutsy right arm seamer and Moeen Ali's off-spin plus his own part-time spin - that should be enough.
Plus the batting line-up would've been: Jennings, Burns, Bairstow, Root, Stokes, Buttler, Ali, Foakes, Curran, Broad, Anderson - so it's hardly weaker.
I think we might see that team in the next test and to be honest and I wouldn't be too surprised if Adil Rashid has to sit out the final two tests as England revert to four seamers.
The other solution, if they really want to maintain having a very varied bowling attack is to drop Ben Foakes and give the wicketkeeping duties to Bairstow or Buttler. That would probably have been my way of getting the two specialist spinners for this game (which I thought would be needed when I saw how the pitch looked to the eye).
Unfortunately the promising fast bowler from Warwickshire, Ollie Stone was on this tour but had to come home as he suffered a stress fracture. As a replacement they called up Mark Wood, but he doesn't really do it for me as far as test cricket is concerned. I recall the last chance he got he was wayward and lacking in raw pace thanks to a catalog of injuries.
They like to use Ben Stokes in that enforcer role, hitting the deck hard to get extra bounce and in fairness he has been excellent when not overused, having wicket taking success both in this match and in the last test in Sri Lanka.
The problem here has been with Sam Curran and Adil Rashid - the two men they've picked to provide 'variety in the attack' and resulting in the painful omission of Broad, a mistake which is all too obvious now.
I personally think they've gone a little bit overboard with this idea that we MUST have 3 or 4 different styles of bowler and in doing so, have lost sight of a bowler who has served us very, very well - Stuart Broad in this case.
Here, if you take away Rashid and add Broad - Root has 2 expert new ball bowlers, a left armer, a gutsy right arm seamer and Moeen Ali's off-spin plus his own part-time spin - that should be enough.
Plus the batting line-up would've been: Jennings, Burns, Bairstow, Root, Stokes, Buttler, Ali, Foakes, Curran, Broad, Anderson - so it's hardly weaker.
I think we might see that team in the next test and to be honest and I wouldn't be too surprised if Adil Rashid has to sit out the final two tests as England revert to four seamers.
The other solution, if they really want to maintain having a very varied bowling attack is to drop Ben Foakes and give the wicketkeeping duties to Bairstow or Buttler. That would probably have been my way of getting the two specialist spinners for this game (which I thought would be needed when I saw how the pitch looked to the eye).
Can't remember another day where no wickets fell.
Only England could contrive to fold for 77 on a wicket where not one wicket falls the next day.
Only England could contrive to fold for 77 on a wicket where not one wicket falls the next day.
Chris O'Connor
Player Valuation: £35m
Yes the 77 was a very substandard performance and there are no real excuses or mitigation that can adequately cover it. West Indies tall men took full advantage of the uneven patches bowling with precision and more importantly with the right projectory ( with being tall) to extract maximum benefit with some rearing and some keeping low.
Today was like a practice match tbh, meaningless in so far as the match was gone and already lost whatever they did. You try to be professional, but you do need that extra 5% to perform well, if you lose it its massively exaggerated in your performance.
Its a phenomenon that happens repeatedly in so many tests, the first two days, normally three tbh, is where the match is won and lost, once it's lost the inevitable losing side's heads drop, they play extremely poor cricket and to all intents and purposes lose interest. One side is still very much up for it while the other tries to play well but cannot, the game has already been decided, the game is well gone and the margins between the two just get wider.
This game was a write-off yesterday and it's just winding towards the final rites tomorrow. Variable bounce and not enough to play for will probably mean England won't last very long. The openers actually probably do have their own survival in test cricket to spur them, the rest don't.