Current Affairs Cost of living…

[Daveysgingerlovechild]

View attachment 194778

Ohhhh you've invoked my knee jerk response to pifflewaffler....

 

[Brennan]

Polluting rivers in third world countries to get rid of the toxic battery acid - plus it in the future if everyone had an electric car how is going to be produced on that massive scale ?
EG everyone plugs in at peak times when they come home from work -
The technology must be there for a vehicle in the future to be charged by a huge dynamo - but how can they rip us off on feul taxas they do at the moment ?

You’re employing the classic logical fallacy of arguing any alternative to the status quo must be perfect or it isn’t worth doing.

EVs are better for the planet than ICE cars. Literally nobody is saying they’re a panacea.

 

[Bluerover]

It's a fair point this Joey. Indeed I think it was Brennan who made the point that air pollution (I.e. environmental pollution in a wider sense) is as important as worrying about carbon emissions.

Frankly just driving less and buying less is the future, not making more and more stuff.

Agreed. Much more working from home thereby less commuting.

Service industries are of course unable in most cases to avail of this.

The Irish Civil Service worked from home from March 2020.

Still....

Irish economy to slow sharply next year but escape recession – EU forecast

Ireland is to escape a recession in 2023, according to the latest EU forecast, which sees most of the bloc tipping into negative growth from this winter.

m.independent.ie

Yup, we'll slow down a bit but not a bad performance for a small open economy.

 

[peteblue]

Yes I do - It currently cost about £1 an hour to heat my house

I live in an old Victorian terrace which is a [Poor language removed] to heat - I've had to splash out and put the heating on for a couple of hours because the temperature is 11 degrees in here

If this is the future - then the UK is about to become a third world country

Don’t worry, when you are forced to install a heat pump instead of your boiler (having changed all of the central heating piping) and then put a charging point on the side of your house to link to your car, which somehow no one using the pavement in your street will trip over, you will find a way.

Of course if you are like those of us with private drives and large gardens (where we can place the electric fans), then you will be quids in, especially if you already have a lot of money.

Personally I think the whole thing will drive us back into the dark ages, and those living in terraces (think Liverpool or one of the towns in the South Wales valleys, obviously not the posh areas of London) will be paying through the nose, but any minute now some young, middle class and eager green activist will be along to show me the error of my ways……

 

[Rita_Poon]

sounds like peppa pig world...

 

[WA Toffee]

You’re employing the classic logical fallacy of arguing any alternative to the status quo must be perfect or it isn’t worth doing.

EVs are better for the planet than ICE cars. Literally nobody is saying they’re a panacea.

Also, Henry Ford didn't invent a V8 supercar, that was organic development from the initial models. The model T paved the way for future refinement and improvements.

Same with electric cars - the original, or even the current models will not be the final outcome, but they are paving the way for future improvements - batteries that may last over 1000 kms without charging, non hazardous components etc

 

[Brennan]

Don’t worry, when you are forced to install a heat pump instead of your boiler (having changed all of the central heating piping) and then put a charging point on the side of your house to link to your car, which somehow no one using the pavement in your street will trip over, you will find a way.

Of course if you are like those of us with private drives and large gardens (where we can place the electric fans), then you will be quids in, especially if you already have a lot of money.

Personally I think the whole thing will drive us back into the dark ages, and those living in terraces (think Liverpool or one of the towns in the South Wales valleys, obviously not the posh areas of London) will be paying through the nose, but any minute now some young, middle class and eager green activist will be along to show me the error of my ways……

It was the Tories who scrapped insulation grants that is now costing taxpayers billions due to energy subsidies. Those grants would have directly helped some of those people you are talking about.

Seeing as less than 15% of homes in England were built pre 1900, a progressive policy to support low and middle income earners who live in these inefficient properties could be targeted.

Sadly like Joey your suggestion seems to be keep things as they are because the solution isn’t perfect. Maybe it’s an age thing

 

[PhilM]

Also, Henry Ford didn't invent a V8 supercar, that was organic development from the initial models. The model T paved the way for future refinement and improvements.

Same with electric cars - the original, or even the current models will not be the final outcome, but they are paving the way for future improvements - batteries that may last over 1000 kms without charging, non hazardous components etc

Very aptly put. There is enough evidence to confidently say that an EV already has a much lower carbon footprint than their ICE peers, and this will only improve.

This is even including manufacturing, so as the technology and manufacturing methods improve there'll be even more benefits.

 

[Brennan]

Also, Henry Ford didn't invent a V8 supercar, that was organic development from the initial models. The model T paved the way for future refinement and improvements.

Same with electric cars - the original, or even the current models will not be the final outcome, but they are paving the way for future improvements - batteries that may last over 1000 kms without charging, non hazardous components etc

I can just imagine Joey and Pete’s forefathers, when they heard about this new development in vehicular transport.

“What a preposterous idea, we’ve all got perfectly good horses and carts! Do they propose we would all fill our cars up with oil ?? Sounds terribly dangerous”

 

[peteblue]

It was the Tories who scrapped insulation grants that is now costing taxpayers billions due to energy subsidies. Those grants would have directly helped some of those people you are talking about.

Seeing as less than 15% of homes in England were built pre 1900, a progressive policy to support low and middle income earners who live in these inefficient properties could be targeted.

Sadly like Joey your suggestion seems to be keep things as they are because the solution isn’t perfect. Maybe it’s an age thing

“ Motorists who don’t have off-street parking may find that it’s still cheaper to run a diesel car than an electric vehicle, new research from the AA has found.

New analysis by the organisation found that rapid and ultra-rapid public chargers, which can fill a car battery to nearly full in around 30 minutes or less, were more expensive to rely on than using diesel.

Slow and “fast” chargers beat combustion engines for cost, but these require the driver to park up for several hours at a time, often overnight in the case of slow chargers.

This may not be practical for those who do not have such facilities nearby to their homes and who might therefore be forced to drive to more expensive rapid chargers. Relying on rapid charging can also be detrimental to the life of a car battery. ”……

 

[Brennan]

“ Motorists who don’t have off-street parking may find that it’s still cheaper to run a diesel car than an electric vehicle, new research from the AA has found.

New analysis by the organisation found that rapid and ultra-rapid public chargers, which can fill a car battery to nearly full in around 30 minutes or less, were more expensive to rely on than using diesel.

Slow and “fast” chargers beat combustion engines for cost, but these require the driver to park up for several hours at a time, often overnight in the case of slow chargers.

This may not be practical for those who do not have such facilities nearby to their homes and who might therefore be forced to drive to more expensive rapid chargers. Relying on rapid charging can also be detrimental to the life of a car battery. ”……

Not sure what your point is Pete.

Lots of people in London don’t own a car at all because it’s not logical for them. That doesn’t mean nobody should have a car.

In the same way, EVs are not currently practical for many people. Doesn’t mean those who can make it work shouldn’t make the jump.

Estimates are that around 2/3 of homes in the UK have off-street parking, and there are now grants available for the installation of EV chargers in apartment complex car parks, which landlords can take advantage of for their tenants.

 

[evilwebby]

An egg, an egg. My Kingdom for an egg.

 

[Rita_Poon]

It was the Tories who scrapped insulation grants that is now costing taxpayers billions due to energy subsidies. Those grants would have directly helped some of those people you are talking about.

Seeing as less than 15% of homes in England were built pre 1900, a progressive policy to support low and middle income earners who live in these inefficient properties could be targeted.

Sadly like Joey your suggestion seems to be keep things as they are because the solution isn’t perfect. Maybe it’s an age thing

A horrendous selfish tory toss rag thing*

 

[peteblue]

I can just imagine Joey and Pete’s forefathers, when they heard about this new development in vehicular transport.

“What a preposterous idea, we’ve all got perfectly good horses and carts! Do they propose we would all fill our cars up with oil ?? Sounds terribly dangerous”

No need to try and ridicule people. I have worked at the cutting edge of technology my whole life and have no problem at all with its introduction in whatever field. However, while electric vehicles have plenty going for them, in this early stage they also have plenty going against them and to attempt to force the populace to transfer too quickly is the act of imbeciles. My next door neighbour has two very sleek looking electric cars with various leads hanging out of his garage and that’s fine for him because we all have the space. In other parts of the village there are rows of little cottages where it will just look stupid and provide a trip hazard. Our village doesn’t even have mains gas so please don’t suggest that somehow we will get power points. Also, about ten years ago we all got snowed in and the electricity went off for a week or two. We got by of course because most of us drove 4x4 diesels and could bring in whatever was needed, and the logs and coal deliveries continued because of their diesel vehicles.

Now I’m not saying don’t bring electric vehicles in, just don’t force them onto everybody too quickly, as I believe we are currently doing, under this pretence of saving the planet…..

 

[peteblue]

Not sure what your point is Pete.

Lots of people in London don’t own a car at all because it’s not logical for them. That doesn’t mean nobody should have a car.

In the same way, EVs are not currently practical for many people. Doesn’t mean those who can make it work shouldn’t make the jump.

Estimates are that around 2/3 of homes in the UK have off-street parking, and there are now grants available for the installation of EV chargers in apartment complex car parks, which landlords can take advantage of for their tenants.

Sorry, only just read this. Yes, this is fine, but as I said above it’s the undue legislative haste that’s the problem, similar with the changeover to heat pumps which I fear is the mother of all brain dead solutions and which will get kicked into touch eventually.

Also, if, as a country, we wish to have secure and cheap power then build nuclear generators out of our general taxation and provide both homes and businesses and factories with free electricity. Let’s stop messing about and wasting so much time with these half arsed interim solutions…..