Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

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And your evidence is from?

The trouble with this stuff is that Trump has been peddling this line to support the idea things are not as bad in the USA, I don't know what is going on in China but you can be damn sure someone over there in the know would have cast doubt on this as it is more open than it used to be and there are westerners there now.

People have been casting doubt on their official figures since this began, though.

To believe the official figures you are required to believe that a disease that they first admitted to existing at the end of December, which may have been circulating since at least the start of December and probably earlier, and which apparently started in a city that wasn't locked down until two months afterwards (on January 23rd) somehow didn't spread as far across the country or kill as many people as it has in Italy, France and Spain.

This is despite Italy, France and Spain locking down earlier (after just over a month from first identified case) than Hubei (after just under two months) did, having advanced notice of it coming and a test for the disease (which appears not to have been the case for at least the first month in China).

I am not saying 21 million died, but the official figures are almost unbelievable.
 
Not sure why people are even bothering to share that rubbish from Hitchens.

He preaches to his choir and there is no need to further spread his tosh.

I take your point, I do. But those people, will be the same folks thinking it'll be grand to go outside tomorrow, head to the beach etc...cause, ya'know it's just the flu and rallying against the imminent East European state.

Even views we don't share have to be examined because only under scrutiny do they collapse under public oversight.
 
People have been casting doubt on their official figures since this began, though.

To believe the official figures you are required to believe that a disease that they first admitted to existing at the end of December, which may have been circulating since at least the start of December and probably earlier, and which apparently started in a city that wasn't locked down until two months afterwards (on January 23rd) somehow didn't spread as far across the country or kill as many people as it has in Italy, France and Spain.

This is despite Italy, France and Spain locking down earlier (after just over a month from first identified case) than Hubei (after just under two months) did, having advanced notice of it coming and a test for the disease (which appears not to have been the case for at least the first month in China).

I am not saying 21 million died, but the official figures are almost unbelievable.

There was a mistake with the figures that was quickly corrected.

You are assuming the virus strain is the same in Italy and that genetics and mutation has no part to play (evidence to suggest otherwise)

China still has the 3rd highest deaths

I think it is dangerous to assume the figures are wrong, although I no know any more than you whether they are right. What I do know is that the behaviours, policies and outcome trajectories are very similar across Asia. I'd rather learn from what they have got right over there than follow the route of casting doubt on them, it's too dangerous
 

See Peter Hitchinens is again peddling the notion it's just the flu. If he so utterly convinced it is. Why doesn't he voluntarily infect himself and then we can check on his progress.

For the good of our democracies and republics being brought to their respective knees apparently, we need this straw against the prevailing wind. This so called voice of reason should use the cash he has earned from writing nonsense for over twenty years and take a trip back to Russia or China.

Catch the virus and report back and maybe, finally start to justify his wage.

I don't endorse this opinion by the way, and I wasn't going to mention it, but I've got a mate who has a property maintenance company (a small one) and I work with him every now and again. I'm a flat roofer by trade (although it's not classed as a trade and supposedly anyone can do it lol) He has a sister in law who is high up in a university (I won't say which one) and I keep my hand in if it's worthwhile doing it. Anyway, the lads sister in law wanted me to do her extension, spoke to her Friday saying I would get back to her when things had settled down. We got talking about the virus and her opinion was that it was like the flu because over the last few years we've had a flu epidemic and the weak die and the strong survive and this virus is no different but because it has become a pandemic (even though our death rate will be like a flu bug epidemic) it's over hyped.
 
I don't endorse this opinion by the way, and I wasn't going to mention it, but I've got a mate who has a property maintenance company (a small one) and I work with him every now and again. I'm a flat roofer by trade (although it's not classed as a trade and supposedly anyone can do it lol) He has a sister in law who is high up in a university (I won't say which one) and I keep my hand in if it's worthwhile doing it. Anyway, the lads sister in law wanted me to do her extension, spoke to her Friday saying I would get back to her when things had settled down. We got talking about the virus and her opinion was that it was like the flu because over the last few years we've had a flu epidemic and the weak die and the strong survive and this virus is no different but because it has become a pandemic (even though our death rate will be like a flu bug epidemic) it's over hyped.
People don't get it

1. The more of the virus you initially take on, the greater the risk, age regardless.
2. People will die that would otherwise live if it overpowers NHS resources
3. Not everyone who dies will be 'weak', 50 doctors have died in Italy
4. What's wrong with protecting the weak, we're not just talking about people who would die this year anyway, we are talking about people with diabetes, people with heart conditions but have many years left, people with Cancer who are undergoing treatment and would recover, kids with serious respiratory conditions that are otherwise fine and have a lifetime in front of them.

I always thought that Eugenics would make a comeback
 
Help me out here.Why no new cases apart from China ??????????????????

Complete lockdown for weeks
 
There was a mistake with the figures that was quickly corrected.

You are assuming the virus strain is the same in Italy and that genetics and mutation has no part to play (evidence to suggest otherwise)

China still has the 3rd highest deaths

I think it is dangerous to assume the figures are wrong, although I no know any more than you whether they are right. What I do know is that the behaviours, policies and outcome trajectories are very similar across Asia. I'd rather learn from what they have got right over there than follow the route of casting doubt on them, it's too dangerous

They aren’t very similar, though - South Korea got measures in place early, as did HK and Singapore and also did things differently to the Mainland PRC.

Most importantly, those countries were not where the outbreak started - even with the best will in the world, that disease had at least a week in circulation before it was picked up (probably more like a fortnight or more). The idea it didn’t spread in a city of millions, connected to the rest of that vast country by rail, road and air is not plausible. Even if it was a different strain with less lethality it would still have spread.

Finally, why is it dangerous to doubt the official figures in a discussion on a football forum?
 
Two weeks into lock down here in Spain and it´s tough. Like most people in Madrid, we´ve only got a small place. The restrictions on even going for exercise are probably the correct decision but to go from living a very active lifestyle to being stuck inside with no prospect of it changing any time soon is doing nothing for my state of mind.
 
Finally, why is it dangerous to doubt the official figures in a discussion on a football forum?

I think the problem is that people like Trump are using this line to suggest that China's approach is not necessary, that it does not work and that this is because they are lying. He wants to get re-elected and cannot face the idea of the country going into meltdown this, election, year. That is what is dangerous. I know the Chinese government can be economical with the truth but then again so can the American President.

I have no confirmation of the chinese statistics but to buy in Trump's line and assume they are wrong and that their approach is not therefore trustworthy is dangerous.
 
And your evidence is from?

The trouble with this stuff is that Trump has been peddling this line to support the idea things are not as bad in the USA, I don't know what is going on in China but you can be damn sure someone over there in the know would have cast doubt on this as it is more open than it used to be and there are westerners there now.

They were sending doctors to Italy 2 weeks ago from China so that tells you something.

This is going to end up with 3 outcomes, those countries that came down fast and hard, mainly asia, those who reacted a little later (us) and those who missed the boat (either willfully, USA, or through the nature of their society and infrastructure, most still to come)

When the outcomes are known then we will see which was the best approach. I'd say it was probably safer in Wuhan this week than London
This is one of the stupidest things Ive ever seen posted on a message board, and Ive spent years on here!

The evidence that China lies about things is maybe(even if we ignore everything over the past 40 years) the fact they lied for the first 2 months of it and threatened Doctors and any patients in an attempt to keep it secret while lying to the WHO and saying its not-contagious...until they realized they couldn't control it anymore. Oh yeah, and maybe everything in Hong Kong the months prior. But be a brutal dictatorial regimes puppet, its cute.
 
And your evidence is from?

The trouble with this stuff is that Trump has been peddling this line to support the idea things are not as bad in the USA, I don't know what is going on in China but you can be damn sure someone over there in the know would have cast doubt on this as it is more open than it used to be and there are westerners there now.

They were sending doctors to Italy 2 weeks ago from China so that tells you something.

This is going to end up with 3 outcomes, those countries that came down fast and hard, mainly asia, those who reacted a little later (us) and those who missed the boat (either willfully, USA, or through the nature of their society and infrastructure, most still to come)

When the outcomes are known then we will see which was the best approach. I'd say it was probably safer in Wuhan this week than London

1: China has literally been billing European countries for substandard equipment and to send doctors overseas.

Their media is claiming its free and a gesture of goodwill but it is not. They are billing Italy for example and threatening to stop assisting unless a deal is signed to create a new 'Silk Road'.

2: China claims the US caused the virus. However all of the evidence points to Wuhans animal market and their bio testing centre.

3: China NEVER gives away negative information about the states deficiencies. Certainly it is impossible to trust the figures when you see them claim "no deaths in wuhan" then an army of online videos showing trucks carrying bodies to the morgue.

4: Asia is now on the 2nd wave of the virus.


There was a mistake with the figures that was quickly corrected.

You are assuming the virus strain is the same in Italy and that genetics and mutation has no part to play (evidence to suggest otherwise)

China still has the 3rd highest deaths

I think it is dangerous to assume the figures are wrong, although I no know any more than you whether they are right. What I do know is that the behaviours, policies and outcome trajectories are very similar across Asia. I'd rather learn from what they have got right over there than follow the route of casting doubt on them, it's too dangerous

The behaviours / policies are similar across Asia?

Can you elaborate?

Lets compare Philippines, Thailand and Indonesia for example?

The ONLY semi success has been Singapore.


People don't get it

1. The more of the virus you initially take on, the greater the risk, age regardless.
2. People will die that would otherwise live if it overpowers NHS resources
3. Not everyone who dies will be 'weak', 50 doctors have died in Italy
4. What's wrong with protecting the weak, we're not just talking about people who would die this year anyway, we are talking about people with diabetes, people with heart conditions but have many years left, people with Cancer who are undergoing treatment and would recover, kids with serious respiratory conditions that are otherwise fine and have a lifetime in front of them.

I always thought that Eugenics would make a comeback

90% of people know this, who "doesnt get it" ?

I think the problem is that people like Trump are using this line to suggest that China's approach is not necessary, that it does not work and that this is because they are lying. He wants to get re-elected and cannot face the idea of the country going into meltdown this, election, year. That is what is dangerous. I know the Chinese government can be economical with the truth but then again so can the American President.

I have no confirmation of the chinese statistics but to buy in Trump's line and assume they are wrong and that their approach is not therefore trustworthy is dangerous.


Haha its certainly dangerous to disagree with anyone who doubts Chinese motives and figures.

Do you agree with shutting down NYC and arresting those who post online about how bad the virus is...as they have done in China.

Or the police/army breaking into peoples homes to beat them...put them into protective covering and drag them onto trucks...BEFORE they are testing.

Interesting notions...
 
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