Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[-Rob-]

Also it’s emphatically not the case that this will be minor for 99% of people who get it; depending on underlying health the death rate can be above 10% with severe illness being at least as likely.

That's just not backed up by facts is it?

The death rate in the UK is currently 0%

 

[-Rob-]

The key isn't just to stop more people entering the country with the virus, but to stop those 53 people (plus probably more than that again who have it but don't know it yet or aren't included in that figure for a number of reasons) from spreading it further.

It's identifying those unkown carriers that is now almost impossible until they have spread it further.

Better controls at the border would have been very good to prevent outbreak in the UK, but unfortunately that horse has bolted now and may not have been workable anyway.

Absolutely correct but containing the 53 identified cases is easy. Containing any newly identified cases is easy. Of course there are going to be more cases within the UK but contain the new cases as they appear and an severe outbreak can be prevented. That needs to be done alongside border checks.

 

[b-rad]

The trouble is the significant spreading before the cases are identified. Containing after identification simply isn't going to stop a severe* outbreak.
The death rate isn't the most worrying thing about this virus, it's the ability to spread long before detection.

*depends on how you define severe

 

[davids]

It doesn't have to be everyone. Just planes coming in from certain parts of the world. Yes it'll be chaos but it will be controlled chaos in a controlled area.
Testing certain people entering the country is going to cause delays at airports and sea ports but it's better than affecting the entire country.

Problem is people like this bloke:

Coronavirus: What is a 'superspreader' and how did UK man pass on the virus?

It is not fully understood why some people are more likely to pass on a pathogen - but identifying them quickly is vital.

news.sky.com

 

[Toast]

Italy closing all schools now.

I hope, but doubt, that our government is learning from this.

 

[verreauxi]

Okay, now it's time to panic!!

Baby Yoda toy production could be derailed by coronavirus

Hasbro, the maker of several "Star Wars" Baby Yoda toys set to hit stores later this year, confirmed last week that its supply chain is being disrupted by the coronavirus outbreak.

www.cnn.com

 

[davek]

Not according to my French colleagues and suppliers who are somewhat non-plussed.

Like I say, no surrounding country has taken anything like the same level of precaution and I'm not sure what it is supposed to achieve. Why is 3000 safe and 5000 not? Why can I go watch KV Kortrijk this weekend but 30km away I can't see Lille?

I couldn't care less what people in private companies think, they have their eyes on profit not the public good.

 

[Cool_Blue]

My partners nephew and his wife are returning from S Korea imminently. I’ve no idea whether everyone disembarking at Heathrow is being checked or not? They’re planning to come and stay with my partners sister (his mother) the week after next. I’ve told her I’m not going near them.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

I couldn't care less what people in private companies think, they have their eyes on profit not the public good.

You know those people are the public, Dave... the ones on the ground you mentioned.

 

[davek]

Personally, No,
But because of the tremedous number of 'kwits per 1000 of population, (see toilet paper shortage) reluctantly yes.

But its 'The Govt.' They only know one way...and they always almost pick the wrong one.
Heavy hand where they should go light and vice versa...usually both on different sections of the same problem

There'll no doubt plenty of 'its more than my jobsworth' rule stickers in the face of facts.
But the majority of the men and women in the front line will do well beyond their best, in the lions led by donkeys tradition.

When its all over no heads of any importance will roll in the subsequent inquiry

All lessons learned (like most disaster enquiries) will be noted - until somebody actually costs them and says - how 'kin much!

I guess we'll have to wait and see.

I see hoarding going on and its shameful. There's like an army of people out there acting like survivalists buying beyond what's reasonable to be doing at this moment. It all adds to the feeling of panic.

Overall my view is that we'll see this period atrociously run if government doesn't step up and start making some telling moves that disrupts the risk of contagion. I fear we have a governement in this country trying to ride two horses and falling betwen them: the big austere message about what could happen and the actual measures they are willing to take to stop it happening. Just telling people to wash their hands for 20 seconds is a criminal abdication of responsibility. Ideology is trumping pragmatism.

Minimum, we need to see large gatherings knockjed on the head until the summer when this virus wont have as damaging effect.

 

[davek]

You know those people are the public, Dave... the ones on the ground you mentioned.

People are private and public at the one time; its just that profiteers will always subvert their own best interests and those of others to turn a profit.

They need to be bypassed by strong central planning.

 

[orchard]

I think it's too late for containment here, personally, 'cos Johnson had a book to write.

Obviously we shouldn't be setting up treatment infrastructure,maybe a few cheap b&q pagodas in the hospital car parks and some G4S work camps for the infected should do it.

 

[Disgruntledgoat]

People are private and public at the one time; its just that profiteers will always subvert their own best interests and those of others to turn a profit.

They need to be bypassed by strong central planning.

You have no idea who these people are, their motivations, the role they occupy at their jobs or whether they care about it.

You are simply spouting ideology.

 

[davek]

You have no idea who these people are, their motivations, the role they occupy at their jobs or whether they care about it.

You are simply spouting ideology.

We're discussing here the difference between a hands on government response to a light touch government response, so yes, it defo is ideological.

And Ilm right in saying that in a crisis like this you hand over the running of the situation to a technocratic government to get the job done. This is no time for a neo-liberal worshipping idiocracy to be in charge.

 

[Barnfred 55]

People who discuss politics with me know I'm as statist. I think that the state should be involved more not less in people's lives. I believe it's the only way of tethering the excesses of the so called "free' market, which, untethered, can destroy people and their communities through naked self interest.

Here's my question: under these extraordinary circumstances, wouldn't you rather we had a strong state laying down some potentially unpopular decisions as a precaution to save lives than what we have right now: a government trying to stand back from making serious decisions?

One thing that should already be in place, for example, is a ban on large gatherings / assemblies. Yes, and that means football matches too. We need to see a 3 day week announced to cut down on contact at all larger units of production - with full pay. We need to see an end to people hoarding food and hygienic products and medicines (we all know that's going on).

To my mind, we have a government failing to take command. 'Wash your hands to the tune of 'God Save the Queen'" is no replacement for a sensible policy on public assembly, employment practices and commercial activity.

So, more intervention and control - thoughts?

I think we are lucky that the outbreak happened in a country where there is a lot of state control, otherwise it could be a lot worse.

It doesn't follow that I'd like to live there.