I could say the same of you two...did you read the pieces behind the links?
The links confirm that the usual development time for vaccines is around 10 years. They also confirm the Covid vaccine's development was rushed. One example from those links is them explaining how pre-clinical assessments were skipped. Another example is how usual safety-assessments (which last around 2 years) was rushed to mere months. There's no way to artifically expand 2-3 months into 2-3 years, regardless of how much funding you have. The time just isn't there, so there's no way of knowing about safety concerns 2-3 years down the line.
Other clinical phases of development like testing to see if the vaccine will actually work was rushed through or skipped altogether. Which explains why the protection only holds for a few months, why boosters are required, and why mutations will require tweaks to the formular.
It's a fair call to say the development was
rushed. A decent effort, sure. I've always said I agree that on average the vaccines reduce the potential severity of heavy Covid within the first few months, probably by about 4-to-1 (when looking at hospitalisation data).
But the development was objectively rushed.
During a peak-wave of an active global pandemic, the unvaccinated...at most...never approach using 3% of total NHS beds. This is entirely reasonable. Any National Health Service of a first-world country should easily be able to cope...and if it can't cope with less than 3% of extra patients during a peak-wave of a pandemic (especially considering the usual flu numbers are massively down, which more than cancels out those 3%), then there's some serious problems within the infrastructure or organisation...blaming those extra 3% of patients is what is
unjustifiable.
Because Australia and New Zealand are already sending folk to camps. Did you not know that?
It's hardly madness to be concerned such camps could make their way into Europe, especially considering the incessantly aggressive & poisonous narrative towards the unvaccinated.
Long Live Death!
The Great Question remains...who is the hero, and who be the villain?
Thanks mate. I'm only back for a little bit...just trying to protect discriminated minorities by injecting some balance into one-sided debate.
These are seriously dodgy times, and not because of the virus. Gods willing, some listen.
What's your source for this assumption? The current double-vaccinated aren't very well protected against Omicron, with even the Boosters only offering 4-6 weeks of some extra protection before quickly waning. Source for this are the chiefs of the vaccine-makers themselves...hence them rushing to make new ones.
This is horribly inhumane and goes against every sacred Doctor/Nurse oath we've ever known.
Mass-murdering terrorists who get wounded by police, or drunk-drivers who plough into pushchairs, will get more hospital treatment than the unvaccinated if you have your way.
It's been a real eye-opener to see how morally low some of you are going.
Wow...2 days difference. That is frankly statistically insignificant, especially considering the stricter social rules for unvaccinated folk.
Who's cherry-picking? You've just cherry-picked a near-insignificant difference of 2 days.
FACT: there is no significant overwhelming evidence that the unvaccinated spread the virus more than the vaccinated.
FACT: politicians, media and their followers are majorly pushing this narrative regardless.
The question is why are they pushing this?
Think about that.
My own data =
official UK government statistics.
What vaccine scepticism? I'm protecting the rights of the voluntarily-unvaccinated to remain so without being blamed for things for which they are not responsible.
How am I
"potentially putting people at risk and doing harm."?
This is a big dangerous accusation to make. Why are you making it?
So low? It's the same as UK. Same as most Western European Nations. UK has more boosted, tho'.
Also interesting:
Germany total double-jabbed rate: 70%
Germany population: 83m
Germany total Covid deaths: 109,000
Germany deaths-percentage: 0.0013%
Germany Booster rate: 38%
UK total double-jabbed rate: 70%
UK population: 67m
UK total Covid deaths: 147,000
UK deaths-percentage: 0.0021%
UK Booster rate: 56%
So Germany's rate-of-death is around 40% less than UK's, despite similar double-vaccination rate, and less booster-rate.
You don't really know yourself what you were trying to say there, do you?
This is the critical thing!
Why are the politicians, media & useful idiots pushing the narrative that the unvaccinated are the problem...when the problem appears to be
the likely scenario of needing 6 jabs within 12 months:
Jab 1: 1st vaccine dose Summer 2021.
Jab 2: 2nd dose few weeks later
Jab 3: Booster around Winter 2021/22.
Jab 4: Omicron-formular 1st dose Spring 2022.
Jab 5: 2nd dose few weeks later.
Jab 6: Omicron Booster Summer 2022 (the recommended time between double-jabs and boosters
is now 3 months).
@everyone, are you all willing to take 6 jabs within 12 months?
Rich coming from you, I've seen your horrific comments on the drone bombs killing Afghan civilians, and on your support for Assange to be carted off to US for the crime of exposing war-atrocities....you have some inhumane views on things.
I'd rather be seen as a loon than be seen to support evil.
Been there, done that.
@davek was a hard vicious battle, but in the end he proved to be an honorable opponent...once we got it out of our system we became respectful, sometimes even amicable, despite still having different views on certain things.
Thanks for making a thoughtful reply.
Re: 1) I did already do that by stating the approx. 4-to-1 ratio of unvaccinated taking up more hospital beds than vaccinated. My core argument is that despite this, we should not be blaming everything on the unvaccinated. For it's this blame that is
disproportionate.
Life is full of risk and full of choice. The smoker & drinker will more likely require care than the tee-total etc. We still treat lung cancer as and when required.
Re: 2) how is
"an unvaccinated person at a higher risk at being infected"? What are you basing that on? Older Delta data? Current Omicron case analysis doesn't appear to support this. It looks like being vaccinated offers no less risk of being infected with Omicron than being unvaxxed.
Disinformation. South Africa only has around 26% double-jabbed rate.
The boosters offer around a 70%-protection
boost against Omicron for about 4-6 weeks before tailing off (source: the firms behind the vaccines themselves). This rather unimpressive performance is because the current jabs were designed to combat the virus from 3 generations ago (the original Wuhan variant).
Omicron itself looks to be fairly mild for non-risk folk, so there's an argument that the Booster will
knock you for six more than Omicron would, by the law of averages based on the data so far.
In March/April the Omicron-formular vaccines should be ready, likely offering a better balance of pros/cons. It's not yet known if there'll be any adverse effects for those taking the new vaccines if only mere months previously they also received the Wuhan-variant booster.
For those who do want to take the vaccines, it's at least worth being aware of this so you can make a sensible call for yourself.
South Africa has a tiny booster rate...not even 10%...and only a 26% double-jabbed rate...they are currently not needing additional measures despite having Omicron a few weeks longer than UK.
As I said above, the current vaccines (and boosters) aren't designed to combat Omicron. You would need to wait for the new vaccines to remotely support your statement.
Of course the vaccines are experimental. This isn't even under debate. We're in the middle of an active pandemic. The chiefs of Moderna, Biontech & Astra-Z have all stated they are developing new vaccines to combat the latest mutations. They're
experimenting right now. The results of these experiments should be ready by Spring this year.
It's no shame to admit the experimental nature of the current, and incoming, vaccines. The world has never had a global vaccine push like this, and especially not one with relatively new vaccine tech like MRNA-based, the development of which was famously fast-tracked.
Once the pandemic has ended (hopefully!) then we'll have a settled vaccine routine...likely with annual tweaks similar to how the flu jab gets updates based on what the dominant mutations are. At this settled point we can then argue the vaccines are no longer experimental, but routine.
