Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[BlueToff]

Ok it's not completely useless but it's hardly groundbreaking. South Africa has loads of data that's at least as useful.

And they are using that SA data, just for understandable reasons have to be cautious about all of this, including the Norway data.

Denmark is the best to look at. Their sequencing is state of the art, and they're a few days ahead of the UK.

So far, good signs from all three countries re. the severity of this illness. It's whether the government here blinks first.

France are going to be hit by Omicron very soon too. Germany will get it. Everywhere's going to get it.

 

[tsubaki]

What's useful about it?

Do you not want to know how the variant behaves when it first appears in your country? How quickly it spreads? What the symptoms are when it infects some of your population? What risk it might pose?

Are you really saying a government shouldn't want to know all that quickly?

 

[grandjoeblue]

Do you not want to know how the variant behaves when it first appears in your country? How quickly it spreads? What the symptoms are when it infects some of your population? What risk it might pose?

Are you really saying a government shouldn't want to know all that quickly?

You already know that it's easier in countries with barely any cases. Again as I mentioned previously a lot of information is available from SA that shows the same thing.

 

[grandjoeblue]

And they are using that SA data, just for understandable reasons have to be cautious about all of this, including the Norway data.

Denmark is the best to look at. Their sequencing is state of the art, and they're a few days ahead of the UK.

So far, good signs from all three countries re. the severity of this illness. It's whether the government here blinks first.

France are going to be hit by Omicron very soon too. Germany will get it. Everywhere's going to get it.

UK sequencing is as good as any other country. France and Germany already have it

 

[tsubaki]

You already know that it's easier in countries with barely any cases. Again as I mentioned previously a lot of information is available from SA that shows the same thing.

and why do you think they have barely any cases?

also FWIW by the time they were doing that a lot of that info wasn't available from SA (again, it had only been designated on the day of the party); nor (given all the differences between SA and Norway) might it have been that relevant

 

[grandjoeblue]

and why do you think they have barely any cases?

also FWIW by the time they were doing that a lot of that info wasn't available from SA (again, it had only been designated on the day of the party); nor (given all the differences between SA and Norway) might it have been that relevant

Because they're an isolated nation with a massive land mass and a small population?

All of the information on spread was available in SA.

 

[BlueToff]

UK sequencing is as good as any other country. France and Germany already have it

they do already have it but they haven't yet seen the spike in cases that can definitely be put down to Omicron. UK has. France about a week to 10 days behind UK.

 

[BlueToff]

Just FYI for SA data

DAILY HOSPITAL SURVEILLANCE (DATCOV) REPORT - NICD

DAILY HOSPITAL SURVEILLANCE (DATCOV) REPORT **Please note: the DATCOV system ended at the end of December 2022 and COVID-19 hospitalisation data will be collected via the Notifiable Medical Conditions surveillance system from January 2023. These daily COVID-19 hospitalisation reports have been...

www.nicd.ac.za

 

[tsubaki]

Because they're an isolated nation with a massive land mass and a small population?

All of the information on spread was available in SA.

No, its because they have a proper public health system with good surveillance that can get this thing right a lot of the time.

That second sentence is a fib by the way. Here is the WHO report released on the 28th (two days after the party, two days before it was picked up by the Norwegian public health system). I draw your attention to this bit (emphasis added):

Transmissibility: It is not yet clear whether Omicron is more transmissible (e.g., more easily spread from person to person) compared to other variants, including Delta. The number of people testing positive has risen in areas of South Africa affected by this variant, but epidemiologic studies are underway to understand if it is because of Omicron or other factors.

 

[maccavennie]

Tagging me in LL?? That is the opposite of a slap to the head.

Ritonavir is a not very effective treatment for HIV as resistance has developed. However, when its added to other antivirals it boosts their efficacy. You never see it given alone any more.

So for @maccavennie in your example its the lopinavir that is the “active” agent and not effective, even if you boost it with ritonavir.

Paxlovid is a SARS-CoV-2 protease inhibitor. Protease is an enzyme required in viral replication. If you inhibit it, at minimum viral replication is slowed allowing more time for the immune system to do its thing.

They have been trying protease inhibitors developed for HIV to treat COVID. This is the first developed for SARS-COV-2.

Early data looks good, but smallish trials. Standard for phase 2 and 3 trials.


Now watch all those that don’t want a new vaccine suddenly demand.

Thanks for details RAFUH. So am I right in saying the pills are designed to slow the virus down attacking the body and then in turn our immune system (all being well) has more time to fight back and get us up and running.

 

[maccavennie]

I really don't think 12 yr olds should be getting vaccinated. Sorry, I don't agree with it. Young adults, by all means. Kids... I don't think they should be doing it. Kids in the UK get vaccinated when they're young, obviously, and then again around 15-16 for TB etc. I don't see that being an issue. I do think 12 is too young given the still early stages of the vaccines.

It's a choice you gotta make as a parent mate. My son will be offered his 2nd vaccine now as he's had his first (uptake was about 25% in his year) so that's a fair amount who will have the same opinion as yourself.

The decisions you make as a dad. One minute your deciding if your lad should have the latest xbox, the next minute your discussing vaccines in the midst of pandemics. Its a lot to take in.

I'm extremely proud of my kids though, not just about whether they take it or not when it's available ( I know loads which haven't btw and I don't judge ) but the fact I've been able to sit down with him, listen to his thoughts about everything we've all gone through over these past 20 months. I don't think I'd have been able to do it when I was younger. He's far far stronger than he realises.

 

[RAFUH]

Thanks for details RAFUH. So am I right in saying the pills are designed to slow the virus down attacking the body and then in turn our immune system (all being well) has more time to fight back and get us up and running.

Sorta. Once you are infected it stops/slows the virus replicating itself. That means lower/slower growing viral load, fewer viruses infecting more cells and fewer for the immune system to kill.

 

[LinekersLegs]

I really don't think 12 yr olds should be getting vaccinated. Sorry, I don't agree with it. Young adults, by all means. Kids... I don't think they should be doing it. Kids in the UK get vaccinated when they're young, obviously, and then again around 15-16 for TB etc. I don't see that being an issue. I do think 12 is too young given the still early stages of the vaccines.

Strongly disagree but I’m not a parent.

Covid has not only been hugely disruptive to kids schooling and a lot of infections in wider community have roots in school outbreaks but Covid isn’t always a mild disease in kids.

COVID-19 mortality preventable by vaccines - Peterson-KFF Health System Tracker

In this analysis, we estimate the number of adult deaths that could have been prevented by timely vaccination. We find that approximately 234,000 deaths since June 2021 could have been prevented with primary series vaccination. These vaccine-preventable deaths represent 60% of all adult COVID-19...

www.healthsystemtracker.org

Even among children age 1-14, who are at relatively low risk of severe illness compared to older adults, COVID-19 was in the top 10 leading causes of death from August through October 2021. Among children age 5-14, COVID-19 ranked as the number 6 leading cause of death in August and the number 5 leading cause of death in September. Among children ages 1-4, COVID-19’s rank rose from number 13 to number 7 among leading causes of death in August 2021 and held there in September.

 

[BlueToff]

Strongly disagree but I’m not a parent.

Covid has not only been hugely disruptive to kids schooling and a lot of infections in wider community have roots in school outbreaks but Covid isn’t always a mild disease in kids.

COVID-19 mortality preventable by vaccines - Peterson-KFF Health System Tracker

In this analysis, we estimate the number of adult deaths that could have been prevented by timely vaccination. We find that approximately 234,000 deaths since June 2021 could have been prevented with primary series vaccination. These vaccine-preventable deaths represent 60% of all adult COVID-19...

www.healthsystemtracker.org

Even among children age 1-14, who are at relatively low risk of severe illness compared to older adults, COVID-19 was in the top 10 leading causes of death from August through October 2021. Among children age 5-14, COVID-19 ranked as the number 6 leading cause of death in August and the number 5 leading cause of death in September. Among children ages 1-4, COVID-19’s rank rose from number 13 to number 7 among leading causes of death in August 2021 and held there in September.

I see and hear it Legs, really do. It's just a personal thing. Kids are very safe if they get COVID, though obviously there is the risk they bring it to their parents - that being said, if parents/older siblings etc are vaccinated, it reduces the risk in that regard.

I think people need to make their own decisions about getting the vaccine and at 12 I'm not sure you can do that, nevermind 5.

it's a difficult decision and I'm not a parent either. I have no issue with kids being vaccinated in school, at the age of 15 or perhaps even 14 as is done with TB (I think I would have been 15 but I'd have been in the penultimate year of high school so maybe even 14).

That being said, it's more about I think there needs to be more studies into the potential side effects of the vaccines on children and I don't think there has been enough time to do that just yet. On adults there is enough data to show they are safe

 

[BlueToff]

It's a choice you gotta make as a parent mate. My son will be offered his 2nd vaccine now as he's had his first (uptake was about 25% in his year) so that's a fair amount who will have the same opinion as yourself.

The decisions you make as a dad. One minute your deciding if your lad should have the latest xbox, the next minute your discussing vaccines in the midst of pandemics. Its a lot to take in.

I'm extremely proud of my kids though, not just about whether they take it or not when it's available ( I know loads which haven't btw and I don't judge ) but the fact I've been able to sit down with him, listen to his thoughts about everything we've all gone through over these past 20 months. I don't think I'd have been able to do it when I was younger. He's far far stronger than he realises.

How old is your lad mate? Think we might have discussed this, is he 13-14?

I know he obviously has personal experience.

Different, but my dad nearly died when I was 12. He developed a nasty, respiratory bug that resulted in him getting severe COPD and he was on his deathbed at one stage. I think at one stage he literally had to crawl out of the bed he was on initially because nobody was seeing him, he had to grab a nurse's foot and they all realised how bad he was - apparently the doctor who then came nearly throttled someone he was that mad that my dad hadn't been seen to. But yeah, it was a close call and was a harrowing experience going into see him. Suppose I wasn't old enough at the time to realise that my mum was putting on a braver face about things, but she's like that, typical northerner who just gets on with things. Now he was extremely stressed through work, and he smoked and drank. He no longer smokes from that day on - just went cold turkey after 30 years of smoking every day - but seeing him like that made me realise there was never any need for me to start smoking, because that obviously led to him being so compromised.

I know personal experience obviously shapes your decision making and your son's decision making. I'm just not comfortable I suppose at the thoughts of kids being vaccinated when there's still a lot of questions about it, for the sake of waiting for them to be a few years older (15/16-18)