Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

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Sagat said:
No I don't think rock climbers are treated differently. I've heard dimwit arguments like that made before though, hence why I changed it to smokers and diabetics to ease your understanding.

It seems we're on the same page. I don't expect people to be treated differently and neither do you, as you have stated, so I don't see any point in continuing this discussion.
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I have a problem with your logic which is why I’m asking the questions.

let’s use *your* smoker comparison. We both don’t believe they should be restricted health care even though they pose a risk to themselves and others.

Given the risk to others that smokers pose, do you agree with the restrictions that smoking has in place? Not indoors, in cars with children, on transport etc?

Do you think that’s rational?
 
roydo said:
Consider this reality.

Near me, Covid isnt yet a massive issue for hospitals, but they fully expect an uptick. That said, 80% of covid patients are unvaxxed. And the remaining 20 with covid? The majority caught it whilst in said hospital.

Mrs R is (vaxxed) back in hospital following a complication.

Unvaxxed patients are now a threat to her. I will most likely not visit her to minimise the risk to her.

Thanks for your concern.
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That's in a hospital setting with people who had already been diagnosed or admitted with the virus.

I'm not, and I don't think anybody does, denying that unvaccinated people are infectious. I'm arguing the statistics are set out to present a particular picture that unvaccinated people are now the primary risk of transmission.

If someone contracts the virus in a hospital setting then they are most likely to have gotten it from a member of staff who may or may not be vaccinated and has carried it from another patient who may or may not be vaccinated. The primary risk factor there is just that you are in a hospital setting. It's the same as MRSA in some respects. You go in for a hip operation and come out with MRSA.

This is the difference between RELATIVE risk and ABSOLUTE risk. You are far more likely to catch the virus in a hospital from a vaccinated person than you are to catch the virus in a supermarket from an unvaccinated person.
 
RAFUH said:
As someone whose grandmother died due to COVID, I find this incredibly poor taste.
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I find it in poor taste that others have wished death (or infection with the virus) on me because they don't agree with me but nobody has come running to my defence over that.

I'm sorry for your loss but I'm not responsible and nor is my "poor taste"
 
mill said:
I have a problem with your logic which is why I’m asking the questions.

let’s use *your* smoker comparison. We both don’t believe they should be restricted health care even though they pose a risk to themselves and others.

Given the risk to others that smokers pose, do you agree with the restrictions that smoking has in place? Not indoors, in cars with children, on transport etc?

Do you think that’s rational?
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I'm absolutely fine with restrictions being placed on smokers. I was fine with lockdown to an extent.

I'm not fine with being coerced into a medical treatment I do not want when there is still no long term evidence available yet, unlike the evidence around smoking and to which there is no coercion to take a medical procedure.

I'm not fine with the fact that we had prior pandemic planning that got thrown in the bin. I'm not fine that the government has been utterly inept at managing the pandemic. I'm not fine with the shambles surrounding PPE procurement. I'm not fine with the shambles around Nightingale hospitals, I'm not fine with the horrific lack of ventilators and other medical equipment that was supposed to be brought in to deal with this virus.

I feel like the buck has been passed from consecutive disastrous decisions by government and their "advisors" to innocent members of the public who have reservations about having a medical procedure that has been waved through on emergency powers with no recourse for injury afterwards.
 
Sagat said:
I'm absolutely fine with restrictions being placed on smokers. I was fine with lockdown to an extent.

I'm not fine with being coerced into a medical treatment I do not want when there is still no long term evidence available yet, unlike the evidence around smoking and to which there is no coercion to take a medical procedure.

I'm not fine with the fact that we had prior pandemic planning that got thrown in the bin. I'm not fine that the government has been utterly inept at managing the pandemic. I'm not fine with the shambles surrounding PPE procurement. I'm not fine with the shambles around Nightingale hospitals, I'm not fine with the horrific lack of ventilators and other medical equipment that was supposed to be brought in to deal with this virus.

I feel like the buck has been passed from consecutive disastrous decisions by government and their "advisors" to innocent members of the public who have reservations about having a medical procedure that has been waved through on emergency powers with no recourse for injury afterwards.
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So you would be ok as an unvaccinated person to be refused entry to things like pubs and gigs, and to have travel restrictions, on account of you not being vaccinated?
 
Whole household has been down with COVID since last week. Thankfully mild symptoms so far, although thoroughly unpleasant. Hardest part now is to keep our 5 year old entertained until self isolation ends on Friday. Hoping he’s got immunity build up now so he doesn’t miss any more school before Christmas!

I have high BP and my wife is asthmatic, so grateful that the vaccines appear to have done their job. I guess we’ll never know what the counterfactual scenario would be if we were unvaccinated - not wanting to get into a vaccine debate - but glad we all seem to be ok.
 
jamieni said:
Whole household has been down with COVID since last week. Thankfully mild symptoms so far, although thoroughly unpleasant. Hardest part now is to keep our 5 year old entertained until self isolation ends on Friday. Hoping he’s got immunity build up now so he doesn’t miss any more school before Christmas!

I have high BP and my wife is asthmatic, so grateful that the vaccines appear to have done their job. I guess we’ll never know what the counterfactual scenario would be if we were unvaccinated - not wanting to get into a vaccine debate - but glad we all seem to be ok.
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Glad you are recovering mate, and good luck with the 5 year old entertaining!
 
Sagat said:
That's in a hospital setting with people who had already been diagnosed or admitted with the virus.

I'm not, and I don't think anybody does, denying that unvaccinated people are infectious. I'm arguing the statistics are set out to present a particular picture that unvaccinated people are now the primary risk of transmission.

If someone contracts the virus in a hospital setting then they are most likely to have gotten it from a member of staff who may or may not be vaccinated and has carried it from another patient who may or may not be vaccinated. The primary risk factor there is just that you are in a hospital setting. It's the same as MRSA in some respects. You go in for a hip operation and come out with MRSA.

This is the difference between RELATIVE risk and ABSOLUTE risk. You are far more likely to catch the virus in a hospital from a vaccinated person than you are to catch the virus in a supermarket from an unvaccinated person.
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I don't think it's this part.

It's the fact that unvaccinated account for the majority of hospital and ICU admissions. This puts extra strain on health services and is stopping people getting access to treatments and services that are not covid related.
 
Sagat said:
I find it in poor taste that others have wished death (or infection with the virus) on me because they don't agree with me but nobody has come running to my defence over that.

I'm sorry for your loss but I'm not responsible and nor is my "poor taste"
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I don’t want you to get Covid and I most especially don’t want you to end up in hospital with it. That would be unpleasant for you, add to the workload/risk of already exhausted NHS staff and raises the chances that the triage standards of care we both don’t want will have to be implemented as they have been in many states in the US.

That is why I’ve been trying to answer the questions you have raised about the vaccine to the best of my ability.

The way vaccines work with our bodies means that the chances of long term side effects that we don‘t already know about are extremely low - all the side effects of previous vaccines have been discovered within mere weeks.

Feature Article: Long-term Side Effects of COVID-19 Vaccine? What We Know.

Learn about the scientific evidence that supports the long-term safety of COVID-19 vaccines. Since COVID-19 vaccines are new, some people have asked about their effects on those who take them. Short-term side effects (i.e., those that happen in the days after a vaccine has been given) are...
www.chop.edu www.chop.edu

However the other side of the risk equation is that unless someone takes an awful lot of precautions Delta is so prevalent and transmissible they are likely to be exposed to the virus in the next few months. You seem to be relying on what you believe was a previous exposure for protection but as that article I previously linked to indicated, https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2021/09/infection-immunity-covid-19-vaccines/620099/ the science is currently unclear exactly what protection that provides and for how long. It also assumes you really had Covid - given the lack of tests available in Feb 2020 unless you have had a antibody test to confirm it could well be that all you had was a nasty cold. Even if you were previously infected the vaccine is likely to dramatically increase your antibody levels and your ability to fight off the virus.

Please at the very least get the flu vaccination - flu and Covid is a really bad combo (both for a person and healthcare services) and anything that can done to reduce its spread this winter will be particularly important.
 
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