Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[DuuuncanHadaPigeon]

This is false information that has been repeated debunked here and all over the scientific literature.
Discussion is welcomed as are differences of opinion, but I am not going to allow blatantly false information to be promulgated here.

I guess it depends on his definition of harmful.

The statistics are quite clear that you have a very small chance of dying if you are not 'vulnerable' i.e. the elderly/immunocompromised etc

However, the virus can still be harmful to a 'healthy' person in the form of long covid, loss of smell/taste etc

 

[DuuuncanHadaPigeon]

And there is now data that the vaccinated have lower vial loads when infected so this suggests they would be less likely to spread infection

When it comes to the delta variant, there have been several studies that suggest the viral load is the same between vaccinated and unvaccinated;

Vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals have similar viral loads in communities with a high prevalence of the SARS-CoV-2 delta variant

SARS-CoV-2 variant B.1.617.2 (delta) is associated with higher viral loads [[1][1]] and increased transmissibility relative to other variants, as well as partial escape from polyclonal and monoclonal antibodies [[2][2]]. The emergence of the delta variant has been associated with increasing case...

www.medrxiv.org

COVID Delta variant viral load similar in vaccinated and unvaccinated

Similar viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals with the COVID delta variant, suggest that both can transmit the virus.

hospitalhealthcare.com

COVID-19: Symptoms, incubation, prevention, and more

COVID-19 is a highly contagious infectious disease resulting from a recently identified coronavirus. Learn to curb its spread and more here.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

 

[mill]

When it comes to the delta variant, there have been several studies that suggest the viral load is the same between vaccinated and unvaccinated;

Vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals have similar viral loads in communities with a high prevalence of the SARS-CoV-2 delta variant

SARS-CoV-2 variant B.1.617.2 (delta) is associated with higher viral loads [[1][1]] and increased transmissibility relative to other variants, as well as partial escape from polyclonal and monoclonal antibodies [[2][2]]. The emergence of the delta variant has been associated with increasing case...

www.medrxiv.org

COVID Delta variant viral load similar in vaccinated and unvaccinated

Similar viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals with the COVID delta variant, suggest that both can transmit the virus.

hospitalhealthcare.com

COVID-19: Symptoms, incubation, prevention, and more

COVID-19 is a highly contagious infectious disease resulting from a recently identified coronavirus. Learn to curb its spread and more here.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

If that’s the case, then it’s even more important to get more people vaccinated than if vaccinated people are less infectious.

On the basis you believe that the vaccine reduces your chances of contracting the virus.

 

[DuuuncanHadaPigeon]

If that’s the case, then it’s even more important to get more people vaccinated than if vaccinated people are less infectious.

On the basis you believe that the vaccine reduces your chances of contracting the virus.

Sure, studies show vaccine reduces your chance of catching it. I was just pointing out the similarity in viral loads in regards to the delta variant.

 

[mill]

Sure, studies show vaccine reduces your chance of catching it. I was just pointing out the similarity in viral loads in regards to the delta variant.

Of course. I’m just pointing out the flaw in certain people’s logic.

If you believe that vaccinated people are as infectious than unvaccinated people, then the number of people vaccinated becomes MORE important in reducing the spread. It would take a higher rate of vaccination to result in the same number of cases than if vaccinated people were less infectious.

So unless your favoured outcome is a larger spread of the virus, if you believe that vaccinated people are as infectious as unvaccinated people, it would be rational to want more people vaccinated than if you believed that vaccinated people were less infectious.

 

[adi dassler]

Look at the language you're using..."abundantly clear".

Analysing the anti-Trump phenomenon, recognising some of the good work he's done, and acknowledging the vast support he has...these things aren't indicative of actually supporting him.

We used to call this kind of distinction nuance...but nuance is dead now.

Did you bore it to death?

 

[LinekersLegs]

When it comes to the delta variant, there have been several studies that suggest the viral load is the same between vaccinated and unvaccinated;

Vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals have similar viral loads in communities with a high prevalence of the SARS-CoV-2 delta variant

SARS-CoV-2 variant B.1.617.2 (delta) is associated with higher viral loads [[1][1]] and increased transmissibility relative to other variants, as well as partial escape from polyclonal and monoclonal antibodies [[2][2]]. The emergence of the delta variant has been associated with increasing case...

www.medrxiv.org

COVID Delta variant viral load similar in vaccinated and unvaccinated

Similar viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals with the COVID delta variant, suggest that both can transmit the virus.

hospitalhealthcare.com

COVID-19: Symptoms, incubation, prevention, and more

COVID-19 is a highly contagious infectious disease resulting from a recently identified coronavirus. Learn to curb its spread and more here.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

But, as we have previously discussed, there are also studies that have different outcomes

Delta’s rise is fuelled by rampant spread from people who feel fine

People infected with the Delta variant generally do not have COVID-19 symptoms until two days after they start shedding the coronavirus.

www.nature.com

A small number of study participants experienced ‘breakthrough infections’ with Delta after receiving two doses of an inactivated-virus COVID-19 vaccine. But the vaccine reduced participants’ viral loads at the peak of infection.
Vaccinated individuals were also 65% less likely than unvaccinated individuals to infect someone else, although the estimate was based on a very small sample size.

We also don’t know if the way we measure viral load is an accurate measure of transmission risk (page 8 of the much discussed Oxford report

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.18.21262237v1.full.pdf

Peak viral load therefore now appears similar in infected vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals, with potential implications for onward transmission risk, given the strong association between peak Ct and infectivity34. However, the degree to which this might translate into new infections is unclear; a greater percentage of virus may be non-viable in those vaccinated, and/or their viral loads may also decline faster as suggested by a recent study of patients hospitalised with Delta31 (supported by associations between higher Ct and higher antibody levels here and in35), leading to shorter periods “at risk” for onwards transmission. Nevertheless, there may be implications for any policies that assume a low risk of onward transmission from vaccinated individuals (e.g. relating to self-isolation, travel), despite vaccines both still protecting against infection, thereby still reducing transmission overall. This may be particularly important when vaccinated individuals are not aware of their infection status or perceive that their risk of transmission is low. Importantly, those infected after second vaccination appeared to gain an antibody boost, and higher prior antibody levels were independently associated with lower viral burden.

There was also this from the Netherlands

Virological characteristics of SARS-CoV-2 vaccine breakthrough infections in health care workers

Background SARS-CoV-2 vaccines are highly effective at preventing COVID-19-related morbidity and mortality. As no vaccine is 100% effective, breakthrough infections are expected to occur. Methods We analyzed the virological characteristics of 161 vaccine breakthrough infections in a population...

www.medrxiv.org

Results The delta variant (B.1.617.2) was identified in the majority of cases. Despite similar Ct-values, we demonstrate lower probability of infectious virus detection in respiratory samples of vaccinated HCWs with breakthrough infections compared to unvaccinated HCWs with primary SARS-CoV-2 infections. Nevertheless, infectious virus was found in 68.6% of breakthrough infections and Ct-values decreased throughout the first 3 days of illness.
Conclusions We conclude that rare vaccine breakthrough infections occur, but infectious virus shedding is reduced in these cases.

and a study from Singapore (?) that will try to dig out that suggested although peak viral loads might be similar the vaccinated “cleared” the virus from their system significantly faster so any transmission risk would be for a shorter time.

Tbh to my non-professional eye it looks like the current data is very raw and not peer reviewed and there is high risk in making any definitive statements on transmission risk of an infected vaccinated/unvaccinated person based on viral load either way until we have more robust information.

 

[RAFUH]

When it comes to the delta variant, there have been several studies that suggest the viral load is the same between vaccinated and unvaccinated;

Vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals have similar viral loads in communities with a high prevalence of the SARS-CoV-2 delta variant

SARS-CoV-2 variant B.1.617.2 (delta) is associated with higher viral loads [[1][1]] and increased transmissibility relative to other variants, as well as partial escape from polyclonal and monoclonal antibodies [[2][2]]. The emergence of the delta variant has been associated with increasing case...

www.medrxiv.org

COVID Delta variant viral load similar in vaccinated and unvaccinated

Similar viral loads in vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals with the COVID delta variant, suggest that both can transmit the virus.

hospitalhealthcare.com

COVID-19: Symptoms, incubation, prevention, and more

COVID-19 is a highly contagious infectious disease resulting from a recently identified coronavirus. Learn to curb its spread and more here.

www.medicalnewstoday.com

I incorrectly worded my statement. Peak viral loads are similar. The difference is the length of time vaccinated vs unvaccinated have high (infectious) viral loads.
The vaccinated would be less infectious overall due to being infectious for shorter time frames.

 

[LinekersLegs]

I incorrectly worded my statement. Peak viral loads are similar. The difference is the length of time vaccinated vs unvaccinated have high (infectious) viral loads.
The vaccinated would be less infectious overall due to being infectious for shorter time frames.

This is the Singapore one I recall reading

Virological and serological kinetics of SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant vaccine-breakthrough infections: a multi-center cohort study

Objectives Highly effective vaccines against severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) have been developed but variants of concerns (VOCs) with mutations in the spike protein are worrisome, especially B.1.617.2 (Delta) which has rapidly spread across the world. We aim to study...

www.medrxiv.org

PCR cycle threshold (Ct) values were similar between both vaccinated and unvaccinated groups at diagnosis, but viral loads decreased faster in vaccinated individuals.

 

[RAFUH]

This is the Singapore one I recall reading

Virological and serological kinetics of SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant vaccine-breakthrough infections: a multi-center cohort study

Objectives Highly effective vaccines against severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) have been developed but variants of concerns (VOCs) with mutations in the spike protein are worrisome, especially B.1.617.2 (Delta) which has rapidly spread across the world. We aim to study...

www.medrxiv.org

PCR cycle threshold (Ct) values were similar between both vaccinated and unvaccinated groups at diagnosis, but viral loads decreased faster in vaccinated individuals.

Thanks. I read an article that came through one of my "literature alert" emails, but couldn't find it again.
My email was always a mess pre-COVID with all the latest and greatest articles published or presented... so much worse now.

 

[Groucho]

Can you buy ivermectin at the farmacy?

 

[LinekersLegs]

 

[RAFUH]

Can you buy ivermectin at the farmacy?

 

[RAFUH]

HIV is just harder since it attacks the immune system itself.

 

[TN Toffee]

Can you buy ivermectin at the farmacy?

Not sure. But if you decide to use that as opposed to getting vaccinated, you’re definitely a bit of a neighsayer.