Its far from reflective. 1/3 of those that die within 28 days of having covid are dying from things nothing to do with covid. Over 28 - 60 days I'd hazard a guess that no one is dying from covid.
Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!
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roydo
in memoriam - 1965-2024
Yep. It would be down to "complications".
The nuance that people perhaps fail to recognise (or chose to ignore) is that like many other viruses et al. COVID can contribute to a person's decline.
It may not medically be the sole cause of death, but that does not mean that it hasn't played a significant part in it; this is why COVID goes on the DC.
When you have the flu for example, a common cause of death is pneumonia with flu contributing. If you're unwell and get COVID, it's likely to have an impact.
The whole binary argument of COVID or not-COVID is naive. I have a mild genetic disorder, which impacts one of my organs, and COVID kicked it off big style.
Fortunately, it did no lasting harm by agitating my condition but it certainly had an impact, so no wonder it can cause death in those with other conditions.
roydo
in memoriam - 1965-2024
Indeed. Eddie Large had been a frequent flyer for a cocktail of heart, weight, and diabetic conditions for about 15 years before he got Covid whilst in a Bristol hospital, early days.
But he dies from Covid.
edit. On a DC, everyone dies of sommet.
Dont understand the point you are trying to make, what you are saying is these people died and had COVID, but had comorbidities, so the cause of death was the concurrent comorbidity as opposed to COVID, things are never that linear. Technically no body dies of cancer, but complications due to cancer.
Its not that linear though mate either, some people can be at home for weeks post a positive test, seemingly get better than regress or collapse and are than hospitalised, that may not include an
ICU admission straight of the bat, I think there are number of trajectories before you even look at an ICU intervention, peope can be discharged from ICU than readmitted as well.
Just seems like an odd metric
for the 28 days post test, given the variance of clinical trajectory many are discussing on here.
Aploogies I’ve a questioning mind. We report deaths based on registers deaths with an open timeframe. So deaths that are annonced may have happened in say April but registered today, not perfect either but there isn’t the statistical cut off
or potentially missing stats.
Yes I don't doubt that for the most part, but getting run over or being in a car crash, they were still counted if they had had covid. So on that basis I find it hard to believe everything they tell us tbh.
I've not heard that happening...
I've heard first hand of repeated incorrect death cert claims. From doctors and care home managers. Too many people were just entering cause of death as covid as a) it was easier to, and b) they were told to as no autopsy was required.. Heart attack victims, never tested for covid, entered as covid deaths.
I dont doubt people died from Covid. I just dont think it has killed as many people that we are led to believe it has..
It does mate, with Covid it’s your own immune system that attacks you so there is a time were you can feel on the mend then regress as your immune system goes into to overdrive.
I won’t correct you if that’s what you have heard, but it would be a pretty stupid Doctor who would risk their career by falsifying diagnostic information to avoid a PM they won’t be doing anyway, what’s their motivation - there is none. It’s quite a bizarre premise.
I can only tell you I work in healthcare and worked as part of a team having to manage all this, so I work directly with people who would have a prexisting diagnosis as to why they would be in a health care setting. Like all healthcare setting there has been occurrence of Covid. If it is suspected someone has Covid they are tested immediately. In fact it’s a sad state of affairs if people aren’t tested within hours of admission or before a planned admission at this stage. In the very early stages of this and someone died showing symptoms of Covid, keeping in mind a lot of people die of infections with the same symptoms as Covid, we would test them after death, largely to be accurate on cause of death but also to protect others.
There is something very wrong in the NHS if cause of death is being faulsified and it’s systemic, it’s quite amazing at this stage if the protocols I talk about are not in place at this stage and having worked in the NHS I’d be amazed if that was the case.
Like I say there is zero motivation for a Doctor to put a name on a death cert falsifying a diagnosis, it can be career ending, it would make absolutely zero difference to a Doctor if someone needed to go for a PM, PM’s are very rare by the way, generally only requested by the coroner in very specific circumstances.
Thoughtful thread
Don’t come in here much anymore…I don’t need BP problems!
That said, I can’t believe we’re still arguing over cause of death.
Im guessing the over reporting is balanced by the under reporting.
My grandma died from COVID, but that is not what was on her death certificate.
Doubt any of the residents of her care facility had COVID as a cause of death (despite all but a couple getting it) unless they went to the hospital. Sure as hell looks better for the facility and keeps the state out of it if no one dies from COVID and they could tell families exactly that.
That said, I can’t believe we’re still arguing over cause of death.
Im guessing the over reporting is balanced by the under reporting.
My grandma died from COVID, but that is not what was on her death certificate.
Doubt any of the residents of her care facility had COVID as a cause of death (despite all but a couple getting it) unless they went to the hospital. Sure as hell looks better for the facility and keeps the state out of it if no one dies from COVID and they could tell families exactly that.
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