Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[BlueToff]

On the radio just now, after a year of this crap, only 50% of the uk population know the three main symptoms of Coronavirus. And only 1 in 5 would book a test if feeling unwell. Unreal.

The thought of having to isolate for 2 weeks is very off putting.

It's not just the money aspect. Nobody wants to have to sit in a room for 2 weeks like it's a chuffing prison.

I can absolutely understand it. The last thing I want, for example, is to test positive at work now I have to do the mandatory testing, and not be able to leave my bloody room, as I live with 3 other people, not be able to do any exercise etc etc. I wouldn't even be able to work, either, as I don't have anywhere in my room for a PC and I don't own another laptop and i need two screens - at least - to do my job. So straight away, I'd be in the crap.

The 'isolation' needs to be better thought out.

They are offering lateral flow tests now, that can (or will) be able to be sent out a certain amount of days after testing positive, so that people can test themselves again to see if they are still positive. I'm sure that was in one of the announcements. So, they just need to make sure that is heavily publicised.

It's still crap though - you're asking people who might just have a bit of a head cold (which can eaasily result in a fever) to voluntarily risk having to lock themselves away for 14 days.

 

[roydo]

It most certainly is but then no country has got everything right.
Apart from the vaccine distribution and vaccination program, UK response has been abysmal.
That success is due to the NHS network rather than any input Mr Johnson has made.

Thats not strictly true. Once Johnson had the importance of the 3 key components explained to him, he lobbed the whole lot over to Kate Bingham, a venture capitalist with a medic/bio stuff background, and left her short of nothing she needed.


A lot of what we needed was kind of in place, but the speed and scale of bringing it together was the success; mainly cos politicians stayed out of it. We have seen all too clearly what can happen if they cant resist their natural inclinations.

 

[BlueToff]

Ha - I'm actually pro-Europe. A remoaner as Pete calls me. I've lived and worked both in Germany and Holland and my wife is Dutch.

Check out my posts in the EU in/out thread.

I call it as I see it - I'm astonished and appalled at how badly the EU have handled this matter. Their strategic planning on vaccines has been a shambles from the start - if you can''t see it, then you need to open your eyes.

My wife has elderly relatives in Amsterdam who still have yet to receive a first dose of any vaccine! Her uncle is 75 has one lung and actually survived a severe bout of covid last year - but for some messed up reason, both he and his wife are still waiting for their vaccine shots - just like so many others in similar situations.

So stop being so defensive.

My mate lives in Amsterdam. Was saying yesterday still no news on when they're going to start receiving the vaccines but given the small population (relatively - it's around 18m I think) it's hopeful that once it starts, it won't take too long to finish.

Given there's now real-world evidence to space out both Pfizer and AZ (doesn't even need to be 12 weeks, could be 6-7) and I'm sure that'll be the case with Moderna too, then it should make it easier for nations that size to get their roll out done in the space of 2 months.

 

[BlueToff]

Indoor dining at restaurants have been proven to be one of the key activities in transmission of the last deadly surge into winter.

We just cant repeat that because restauranteurs want to profit. That is a sociopathic.

You mean stay afloat, keep people in their jobs?

You have no idea what it's like to run a restaurant or anything in hospitality Dave, clearly, or you wouldn't be saying that. It's probably one of the hardest, most demanding jobs imaginable.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Indoor dining at restaurants have been proven to be one of the key activities in transmission of the last deadly surge into winter.

We just cant repeat that because restauranteurs want to profit. That is a sociopathic.

Inflammatory language aside, you seem to have missed the point.

It would be perfectly acceptable to open restaurants, alongside public health measures and with a workable track and trace once the rate is sufficiently low.

As we don't have that, the issue becomes A (let rip) vs B (stop making profit from death).

Yes indoor dining is problematic, as is any interaction indoors for a prolonged period, which is why I agree with you about outdoor dining. The problem becomes what to do with restaurants that will struggle without indoor dining and it's unfair to demonize those people as 'anti public health' and put them against the rest of the population when they have legitimate concerns and worries (and have been put in that position largely by forces outside of their control).

Blanket disregard of one camp makes it easier to rationalise completely disregarding the concerns of the other.

 

[Mrk]

Thats not strictly true. Once Johnson had the importance of the 3 key components explained to him, he lobbed the whole lot over to Kate Bingham, a venture capitalist with a medic/bio stuff background, and left her short of nothing she needed.


A lot of what we needed was kind of in place, but the speed and scale of bringing it together was the success; mainly cos politicians stayed out of it. We have seen all too clearly what can happen if they cant resist their natural inclinations.

Hope to god this is another lesson we learn from this whole mess.

 

[BlueToff]

Inflammatory language aside, you seem to have missed the point.

It would be perfectly acceptable to open restaurants, alongside public health measures and with a workable track and trace once the rate is sufficiently low.

As we don't have that, the issue becomes A (let rip) vs B (stop making profit from death).

Yes indoor dining is problematic, as is any interaction indoors for a prolonged period, which is why I agree with you about outdoor dining. The problem becomes what to do with restaurants that will struggle without indoor dining and it's unfair to demonize those people as 'anti public health' and put them against the rest of the population when they have legitimate concerns and worries (and have been put in that position largely by forces outside of their control).

Blanket disregard of one camp makes it easier to rationalise completely disregarding the concerns of the other.

Tbf though, the only recent example we have of widespread track and trace is with schools - and that has seemed to work.

So, until more stuff opens up, we can't see how track and trace is going to work, can we?

Like I said, I know workplaces can now order tests that come every week (or maybe two weeks) because I'm gonna be having to do one. May 17th is still 6.5 weeks away, and that's at the very earliest these things can open.

The test of test and trace, is surely going to come in the next week or so when stuff starts opening up again in retail and outdoors, and then combined with schools back as well on April 12th? Then we'll see what it's made of (and hope that it's better than last year).

Like I've also pointed out, it has to be made clear to people that isolation doesn't necessarily have to be for 2 weeks now. The tests have to be able to be sent out to people after their 3-day or 5-day period (like they currently are for people landing in the UK from countries that aren't red listed) as that's people's get out then.

The thought of being locked in my room with an occasional trip to the kitchen for 2 weeks is bloody scary, and it's not like I could go stay at my mum and dad's either because it'd just be endangering more people.

 

[Mrk]

You mean stay afloat, keep people in their jobs?

You have no idea what it's like to run a restaurant or anything in hospitality Dave, clearly, or you wouldn't be saying that. It's probably one of the hardest, most demanding jobs imaginable.

Exactly. To add to this, it's also worth noting that furlough still costs businesses money as they are still required to pay national insurance contributions for each employee every month. Add that to the cost of rent, insurance and countless other overheads, and you soon see why they're in such a precarious position.

It's true that interruption loans are easy to come by, but it's vital to remember that they are loans, not grants - if a small restaurant has had to take on £100,000 of debt to stay afloat over the past 12 months, that's £100k less they can spend on wage increases, new members of staff, new premises etc. The whole sector is clinging to life - too much longer and it's game over.

 

[COYBL25]

You mean stay afloat, keep people in their jobs?

You have no idea what it's like to run a restaurant or anything in hospitality Dave, clearly, or you wouldn't be saying that. It's probably one of the hardest, most demanding jobs imaginable.

All the owners are always minted.
The staff can always find minimum wage jobs elsewhere.
Oh and they sell muck.

Did I do it right ?

 

[BlueToff]

Exactly. To add to this, it's also worth noting that furlough still costs businesses money as they are still required to pay national insurance contributions for each employee every month. Add that to the cost of rent, insurance and countless other overheads, and you soon see why they're in such a precarious position.

It's true that interruption loans are easy to come by, but it's vital to remember that they are loans, not grants - if a small restaurant has had to take on £100,000 of debt to stay afloat over the past 12 months, that's £100k less they can spend on wage increases, new members of staff, new premises etc. The whole sector is clinging to life - too much longer and it's game over.

My sister's fiance has had two grants (totally £15k) from the government in the past 12 months, and that's just about covered his overheads (he runs a small clothing store).

Fortunately he's not lost too much money but all the grants have done is cover his overheads/rent. It's going to be the same for a lot of businesses.

 

[Mutzo Nutzo]

TBF this is a good example of how opinion has been shifted for a lot of people by anti-EU types. This isn’t a criticism of the EU, at least not in terms of this being the EUs fault.

Vaccine distribution is a national competency and always has been, so is healthcare generally.

Vaccine procurement isn’t (in this case), but the problems reported aren’t really procurement related - as the anti-EU crowd have pointed out oft, there are stockpiles of vaccines in most EU nations.

Now there are criticisms of the procurement, but that it’s not supplying vaccines in the necessary quantities is not a major one of them.

Why EU countries are failing is because this crisis is one that is best handled by a mass organisation that has access to everyone’s health data, in order to arrange millions of appointments and work out a national rollout. We have that in the NHS; they don’t.

My opinion has not been shifted by anti-EU types. Not a single bit. Also I would say that vaccine procurement IS a problem within the EU. The stockpiles you refer to are in some cases held at manufacturing plants that have yet to be approved for use by the EMA. The flaky contracts that the EU signed with AZ also deserve to come under more intensive scrutiny, it has allowed AZ to wriggle out of a lot of "commitments" to the EU.

I also believe the constant dithering around the AZ vaccine and the messages coming out of Berlin especially have only served to instill more than a degree of mistrust among the general EU populace regarding the safety of these vaccines.

They need to stop arsing about and get the vaccines into the arms of the people. Otherwise this pandemic is going to be extended, more people will die and the possibility of new mutant strains only increases.

 

[Jebus_lives]

Tbf though, the only recent example we have of widespread track and trace is with schools - and that has seemed to work.

So, until more stuff opens up, we can't see how track and trace is going to work, can we?

Like I said, I know workplaces can now order tests that come every week (or maybe two weeks) because I'm gonna be having to do one. May 17th is still 6.5 weeks away, and that's at the very earliest these things can open.

The test of test and trace, is surely going to come in the next week or so when stuff starts opening up again in retail and outdoors, and then combined with schools back as well on April 12th? Then we'll see what it's made of (and hope that it's better than last year).

Like I've also pointed out, it has to be made clear to people that isolation doesn't necessarily have to be for 2 weeks now. The tests have to be able to be sent out to people after their 3-day or 5-day period (like they currently are for people landing in the UK from countries that aren't red listed) as that's people's get out then.

The thought of being locked in my room with an occasional trip to the kitchen for 2 weeks is bloody scary, and it's not like I could go stay at my mum and dad's either because it'd just be endangering more people.

The fact that we are a year and 3 lockdowns into a pandemic without having or fully knowing the effectiveness of the system is precisely the problem.

The test and trace should not begin and end with testing - there should be comprehension support and incentive for people to adhere to the system once a positive test occurs - which falls short.

And it needs credible, comprehensive systems to quickly and effectively process and communicate those tests and results - which has again fallen short.

I hope we've turned a corner with it, but I remain unconvinced.

 

[tsubaki]

My opinion has not been shifted by anti-EU types. Not a single bit. Also I would say that vaccine procurement IS a problem within the EU. The stockpiles you refer to are in some cases held at manufacturing plants that have yet to be approved for use by the EMA. The flaky contracts that the EU signed with AZ also deserve to come under more intensive scrutiny, it has allowed AZ to wriggle out of a lot of "commitments" to the EU.

I also believe the constant dithering around the AZ vaccine and the messages coming out of Berlin especially have only served to instill more than a degree of mistrust among the general EU populace regarding the safety of these vaccines.

They need to stop arsing about and get the vaccines into the arms of the people. Otherwise this pandemic is going to be extended, more people will die and the possibility of new mutant strains only increases.

Are you sure about that? I mean, you’ve said what you’ve said at the end there, and talked about “the general EU populace”, and yet at no point have you mentioned the individual countries.

They are the ones responsible for the rollout, for healthcare (and had the EU not intervened, they’d be responsible for procuring the vaccine as well), in short for getting jabs in people’s arms - not the EU.

However the debate from almost every one is framed as “the EU is to blame”. Why, when the only thing they are responsible for is signing these deals?

 

[davek]

You mean stay afloat, keep people in their jobs?

You have no idea what it's like to run a restaurant or anything in hospitality Dave, clearly, or you wouldn't be saying that. It's probably one of the hardest, most demanding jobs imaginable.

I dont care how hard it is. If it's been proven to be a key transmitter of a deadly virus then it shoulkd be mived outdoors or remain shut.

Health over wealth.

 

[BlueToff]

The fact that we are a year and 3 lockdowns into a pandemic without having or fully knowing the effectiveness of the system is precisely the problem.

The test and trace should not begin and end with testing - there should be comprehension support and incentive for people to adhere to the system once a positive test occurs - which falls short.

And it needs credible, comprehensive systems to quickly and effectively process and communicate those tests and results - which has again fallen short.

I hope we've turned a corner with it, but I remain unconvinced.

I agree, though again, the thought of having to sit in a room for 14 days isn't appealing to anybody. So there's support (financial and emotional) but there also has to be that way for people to get out of isolation as soon as is safely possible - and that's by having those tests delivered.