Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[NilSatisOptimum]

I find this hard to credit as there may be some salient points worth noting.

Britain hasn't paused it's vaccination program the take up of both offered vaccinations (AZ and Pfizer) is very high indeed

Britain isn't storing masses of unused vaccines but using them as quickly as supply and logistics currently allow.

If supply chains are made more efficient and outlets for vaccination increased then the plan is to increase the rate of vaccinations too.

We are using our supply at the moment as quickly as current circumstances allow and half the adult population will soon have received a first vaccination.

I wonder where all these unused vaccines you refer to actually are?

In a lot of European countries there is currently storage of AZ vaccines, even taking into account their supply issues, because the take-up rate has been below 50% in some cases.

The current pause on AZ vaccinations will inevitably increase the stocks of the vaccine in storage and further reputational damage, caused by the pause, likely increase them too

I would qualify any alarms over storage as the shelf life of the vaccine is relatively long lasting and shouldn't be out of date before useage (around 6 months).

But given all this where exactly do you think the extra vaccines for COVAX program should come from? option A or B ?

Option A ) where there aren't lots of spare capacity of unused AZ vaccines - (Britain)

OR

Option B ) where there are increasing stocks due to poor take up rates and unwanted stocks (several European countries)

As your previous post said the time for finger wagging is over supply them from where the unused stocks exist.

If this pause leaves over supply in system, make sure COVAX program gets them, Then shout loud and proud.

As the UK is one of the main manufactures of AZ, one can be pretty sure they are running at maximum, well the Welsh one anyway. And this pause will cause storage difficulties at some point. Be prudent to be thinking of COVAX program now, and getting that message out, be positive. Rather than engaging in the negatives of who is pausing what and getting ones knickers in a twist.

 

[BlueToff]

Some EU countries are still using AZ made. This thing is not being reported well. It wasn’t “The EU” that suspended AZ but individual countries, some of them not even in the EU.

but I’m not sure what the EU are blocking. I guess Pfizer but not sure.

I know mate, I know that’s not the EU making that decision (to suspend), but some of its member states (and the two biggest ones) have done, and at different stages both the french and German government haven’t helped with the ‘pr’ around AZ (Macron’s comments, the daft leak back in Jan which caused the uproar)

I read it as being AZ that they’re blocking or planning to, I guessed because of the issues they have in the plants in Belgium as it stands

 

[Billy Dean]

The issue as i understand it is this mate.

Both the Uk and EU have contracts with AZ. The contracts are similar, both based on best efforts and the EU one was actually signed the day before the UK one. The contracts mention the supply chain for both countries as plants in Belgium, Netherlands and two in the UK. Both the UK and the EU paid for the development & manufacturing etc of all four plants.

My understanding of the issue is the EU's order has been left short by 70% by AZ, who arent exporting from the UK plants - the inference is an export ban by the UK government. The UK's order has been fulfilled 100%.

10 mill doses of vaccines have left EU plants for the UK. 0 vaccines have been exported by the UK.

Essentially what the EU is inferring is that the UK has a defacto ban on vaccine exports, keeping what is produced in the UK to ensure their order is met. What the EU has inferred today is if the UK continue to do this, then they will respond in kind and stop all vaccine exports until their orders are met.

The same thing but more overt is happening with the USA, they have no problem acknowledging it though, but they are less reliant on EU plants.

To me and the bit ive done looking into this, the fault could be AZ's, seems they entered a duplicitous contract arrangement with the EU and UK, the bind is AZ and UK have been happy to collude on exports, each hiding behind the other unofficially.

As for the surplus, i dont realistically think there is one, Pete posted figures on it yesterday and i showed him that the over hang of unused vaccines matched almost equally the number who received a first dose, defacto they are stored second doses - most EU nations wont give a first dose unless they have the second dose.

A lot of the German regions are keeping back around half of their doses for that reason. Until the supply becomes more reliable

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

If Ursula Van Leylen blocks export of BioNtech to the U.K., we will simply ramp up our production line of the AZ.

We have done the same with a fair few medications that were proven to be effective in managing poorly people with COVID and before vaccines became available. Two wrongs don't make it right but it sets a precedent to just look after oneself.

List of medicines that cannot be exported from the UK or hoarded - GOV.UK

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk

 

[BlueToff]

The issue as i understand it is this mate.

Both the Uk and EU have contracts with AZ. The contracts are similar, both based on best efforts and the EU one was actually signed the day before the UK one. The contracts mention the supply chain for both countries as plants in Belgium, Netherlands and two in the UK. Both the UK and the EU paid for the development & manufacturing etc of all four plants.

My understanding of the issue is the EU's order has been left short by 70% by AZ, who arent exporting from the UK plants - the inference is an export ban by the UK government. The UK's order has been fulfilled 100%.

10 mill doses of vaccines have left EU plants for the UK. 0 vaccines have been exported by the UK.

Essentially what the EU is inferring is that the UK has a defacto ban on vaccine exports, keeping what is produced in the UK to ensure their order is met. What the EU has inferred today is if the UK continue to do this, then they will respond in kind and stop all vaccine exports until their orders are met.

The same thing but more overt is happening with the USA, they have no problem acknowledging it though, but they are less reliant on EU plants.

To me and the bit ive done looking into this, the fault could be AZ's, seems they entered a duplicitous contract arrangement with the EU and UK, the bind is AZ and UK have been happy to collude on exports, each hiding behind the other unofficially.

As for the surplus, i dont realistically think there is one, Pete posted figures on it yesterday and i showed him that the over hang of unused vaccines matched almost equally the number who received a first dose, defacto they are stored second doses - most EU nations wont give a first dose unless they have the second dose.

Okay, I’m hopi b it can be resolved then.thanks for the explanation

but, there is definitely a big chunk of AZ vaccines in European countries which, for one reason or another, aren’t being used right now when they could (and should) be.

I get their issues with saying nothing is being exported from the Uk their way, but I do find it hard to swallow when there’s been such a crap roll out across some of those countries (my mate in Amsterdam told me a few weeks ago there was major uproar over there because of the slow roll out, I mentioned it on here)

 

[BlueToff]

As the UK is one of the main manufactures of AZ, one can be pretty sure they are running at maximum, well the Welsh one anyway. And this pause will cause storage difficulties at some point. Be prudent to be thinking of COVAX program now, and getting that message out, be positive. Rather than engaging in the negatives of who is pausing what and getting ones knickers in a twist.

I don’t think the UK government have actually engaged in the negatives of who is pausing what

Johnson was asked yesterday, and didn’t comment.

 

[peteblue]

The ‘pause’

EU hints it could block vaccine exports to UK

Major developments from the European Commission now, as president Ursula von der Leyen hints very strongly that the EU could block vaccine exports to the UK.

Here are the relevant comments:

"Open roads run in both directions and this is why we need to ensure that there is reciprocity and proportionality

"I want to be clear on reciprocity. If the situation does not change, we will have to reflect on how to make exports to vaccine-producing countries dependent on their level of openness.

"We are exporting a lot to countries that are themselves producing vaccines and we think this is an invitation to be open, so we also see exports from them coming back to the European Union.

"The second point that is of importance for us, we will reflect on whether exports to countries who have higher vaccination rates than us are still proportionate."

She adds that the EU is "ready to use whatever tool we need to deliver on that".

"This about making sure Europe gets its fair share," she warns.

More on this as we get it...

Von der Leyen comments directly on UK

"Where the UK's concerned, indeed we have observed that in the last six weeks 10 million doses by now have been exported to the UK," the European Commission president continues.

"It is country number one where exports from the European Union is concerned and indeed, the United Kingdom is producing AstraZeneca."

She says that the AstraZeneca contract refers to two production sites in the UK "for deliveries to the EU".

"We are still waiting for doses to come from the UK, so this is an invitation to show us that there are also doses from the UK coming to the European Union," she adds.

These remarks now making it very clear who the previous threats were being directed at.

Hahaha....it was always going to happen. They cannot help themselves can they. We now have the ludicrous situation of the EU insisting we send AZ vaccine to be put with the other store of AZ vaccine that is not being used and 17 countries have ‘paused. They are like rats in a sack, knowing that the EU is getting the blame from European countries and now the EU is trying to blame the 17 countries while simultaneously demanding product that they won’t use. I once described their behaviour as Mr Bean like, yet I was seriously underestimating just how lunatic they could be......

 

[peteblue]

more threats from the EU

Like night follows day.....

 

[Neiler]

The ‘pause’


Hahaha....it was always going to happen. They cannot help themselves can they. We now have the ludicrous situation of the EU insisting we send AZ vaccine to be put with the other store of AZ vaccine that is not being used and 17 countries have ‘paused. They are like rats in a sack, knowing that the EU is getting the blame from European countries and now the EU is trying to blame the 17 countries while simultaneously demanding product that they won’t use. I once described their behaviour as Mr Bean like, yet I was seriously underestimating just how lunatic they could be......

Im beginning to suspect your not a fan of the EU mate.

 

[peteblue]

The issue as i understand it is this mate.

Both the Uk and EU have contracts with AZ. The contracts are similar, both based on best efforts and the EU one was actually signed the day before the UK one. The contracts mention the supply chain for both countries as plants in Belgium, Netherlands and two in the UK. Both the UK and the EU paid for the development & manufacturing etc of all four plants.

My understanding of the issue is the EU's order has been left short by 70% by AZ, who arent exporting from the UK plants - the inference is an export ban by the UK government. The UK's order has been fulfilled 100%.

10 mill doses of vaccines have left EU plants for the UK. 0 vaccines have been exported by the UK.

Essentially what the EU is inferring is that the UK has a defacto ban on vaccine exports, keeping what is produced in the UK to ensure their order is met. What the EU has inferred today is if the UK continue to do this, then they will respond in kind and stop all vaccine exports until their orders are met.

The same thing but more overt is happening with the USA, they have no problem acknowledging it though, but they are less reliant on EU plants.

To me and the bit ive done looking into this, the fault could be AZ's, seems they entered a duplicitous contract arrangement with the EU and UK, the bind is AZ and UK have been happy to collude on exports, each hiding behind the other unofficially.

As for the surplus, i dont realistically think there is one, Pete posted figures on it yesterday and i showed him that the over hang of unused vaccines matched almost equally the number who received a first dose, defacto they are stored second doses - most EU nations wont give a first dose unless they have the second dose.

If the contracts were ‘similar’ the EU would have taken AZ to court, and you know that. But they didn’t did they, because they know that the contracts may be ‘similar’ but they are not the same.

The EU and some European countries are seriously embarrassing themselves at the moment and yet you still try to defend the indefensible.......

 

[peteblue]

Im beginning to suspect your not a fan of the EU mate.

They are behaving exactly as I expect them to behave, and was one of my reasons for not wanting to be part of them anymore. The EU and certain Country Heads are seriously letting down the people of Europe.....

 

[Neiler]

Okay, I’m hopi b it can be resolved then.thanks for the explanation

but, there is definitely a big chunk of AZ vaccines in European countries which, for one reason or another, aren’t being used right now when they could (and should) be.

I get their issues with saying nothing is being exported from the Uk their way, but I do find it hard to swallow when there’s been such a crap roll out across some of those countries (my mate in Amsterdam told me a few weeks ago there was major uproar over there because of the slow roll out, I mentioned it on here)

Good thing is jabs are going to an arm somewhere, but the current situation was logically never going to continue. The AZ jab due to the supply issues isnt as significantly used in the EU as it is the UK, likely for the reasons i explained. A pause of a few days will be made up in a heart beat and vaccines will be used, nothing surer.

To be honest i haven't heard one person say they wouldn't use AZ or really care what vaccine they get - Bill D, might have a better idea on mainland Europe. Certainly here if we had 100k doses tomorrow, they would be in 100k arms by the end of next week. 30k, AZ were paused here this week, we have a capacity to do 250k a week, we have no where near that supply, the pause wont impact really.

 

[Neiler]

If the contracts were ‘similar’ the EU would have taken AZ to court, and you know that. But they didn’t did they, because they know that the contracts may be ‘similar’ but they are not the same.

The EU and some European countries are seriously embarrassing themselves at the moment and yet you still try to defend the indefensible.......

The legal option hasn't been put to bed at all mate, as far as i know, i heard a commissioner speak about it during the week. The litigation is going to take months, but is being pursued. In the meantime the EU is pursuing any political and regulatory options open to it to pursue and further its interests. Its what you would expect them to do really.

 

[Tubey]

Fairly clear what's happening.

They spent a while disparaging the AZ vaccine, calling it quasi-ineffective etc., to the point where already exacerbated vaccine hesitancy on the continent has been worsened, so they have stockpiles now not being used.

To disguise their own failure, as the Italian doctor said they politicized the purported blood clotting side effects to give an excuse as to why take-up is low, and they keep banging the drum on delivery, again as a deflection tactic.

There's no other way to see it - the EU has put lives at risk in a kamikaze attempt to save face and not simply accept getting something catastrophically wrong and doing things to put it right.

 

[Chris O'Connor]

As the UK is one of the main manufactures of AZ, one can be pretty sure they are running at maximum, well the Welsh one anyway. And this pause will cause storage difficulties at some point. Be prudent to be thinking of COVAX program now, and getting that message out, be positive. Rather than engaging in the negatives of who is pausing what and getting ones knickers in a twist.

Again scant regard paid to the points about places that actually might have stockpiles in real life. Far more intent on vacuous virtue signalling which hardly addresses the point.

The pause causes stockpiling in the places that have paused not those that haven't, we're using all the vaccines we can get atm but don't let facts get in the way.