Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[Kurt.]

And yet you seem to have conflated concern about the AZ vaccine (which many European countries shared due to the lack of over 65s in the initial trial data) and an apparent attack on England (not Britain it seems). That doesn't sound like a very balanced perspective. Indeed, given that ideologically Macron is probably most similar to David Cameron, it's notable the dire direction conservatism has gone in that the Torygraph seem hell bent on picking cultural wars at every opportunity.

I think a French referee upset him on the weekend

 

[BlueToff]

We've tried things before, things that completely neglected the science, and we now have one of the highest deaths per capita in the world.

I don't want people having to feel the same way I did when I told that an otherwise healthy family member passed due to this virus, a virus that could have been contained if we had followed the science from day zero.

You mean before we had vaccines? I agree. But we have vaccines, and we have more on the way, and so far, they are working. And, nothing else is changing for at least another month.

Yeah, losing family is crap. I've lost a family member from this. It's awful. They weren't close - they were to my dad - but, it's happened.

The virus could have been contained better. That doesn't mean we shouldn't take the steps when the time is right. Given the pace of the vaccine roll out, those steps have to happen at some point. Or, you might as well never bother. Waiting a year makes zero difference if the virus is still here, because whenever you open up, there will be spikes.

 

[davek]

We live in a free world, so yes, it does.

That's why there's a trade off. We get to a point where, if there is no significant damage or risk of harm to others, then we do things that we want to do, that are enjoyable.

We are, as I clearly said, not there with COVID. Not yet. The crucial aspect is the vaccine because it keeps the illness manageable. But, we have to be careful of new variants etc.

Foerget the vaccines, they will always be behind the virus. Itls changes to bahaviour that's the key.

 

[Number_25]

You mean before we had vaccines? I agree. But we have vaccines, and we have more on the way, and so far, they are working. And, nothing else is changing for at least another month.

Of course, but if the virus mutates in a manner that causes complete immunity from the vaccines itself then we're back to square one.

I'll level with you, I'm 27 years old - I just spent the last 5 years crammed into an office reading papers and writing software on a quarter the pay I should have been on. I want to live my life now, but I'm not willing to make decisions that will result in the preventable death of tens of thousands of people - nor do I believe anyone should be allowed to at this juncture when we're so close to finally beating this thing.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

I think this is correct. I cant remember hearing from personal experience anyone older having the AZ jab.

Did hold back on the comment as there was the factual time lag on who came first with vaccine, which incidentally I myself could not give a monkey... However, I've supported taken dozens of people now, young old on the same days at the same center, and its a clear anecdotal observation.
Factor in the very obvious blurring on Monday will only feed into, my one is better than your one which will subsequently aid the anti vaccers. Always a silly move when we play political with science its never set in stone or ideology like politics and can move rapidly in view and practice.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

Foerget the vaccines, they will always be behind the virus. Itls changes to bahaviour that's the key.

Its a valid point only have to look at flu and other seasonal illnesses drop off with social distancing etc. Not so long ago it became unacceptable with fitness to work mantra from government to have time off work for a cold and such like. Cant near a place of work if you sneeze now.

 

[grandjoeblue]

Foerget the vaccines, they will always be behind the virus. Itls changes to bahaviour that's the key.

You need to look at the science, its clear that the vaccines are the answer.

Everyone wearing masks has had a relatively small impact on preventing deaths. Vaccines are preventing HUGE numbers of deaths.

 

[BlueToff]

Of course, but if the virus mutates in a manner that causes complete immunity from the vaccines itself then we're back to square one.

I'll level with you, I'm 27 years old - I just spent the last 5 years crammed into an office reading papers and writing software on a quarter the pay I should have been on. I want to live my life now, but I'm not willing to make decisions that will result in the preventable death of tens of thousands of people - nor do I believe anyone should be allowed to at this juncture when we're so close to finally beating this thing.

But, and correct me if I'm wrong, but no virus has really ever done that? They have never somehow proved totally immune to the vaccines, because the make up of the virus remains very similar? That's why they're so confident. And then you're adding in that standard vaccine efficacy (for example a flu jab) is about 55-60%. These vaccines are hitting 85-90% after one dose. Also, you have to take into account how many people have covid and don't actually have a) any symptoms or b) anything more mild than a bad head cold. It's not to take away from the seriousness of it, it just shows that in the vast majority of people, their immune systems can fight it off without needing any help at all. So those people having a vaccine on top of that is going to help even more.

Now, that's not to say we don't have to be wary, but so far, every vaccine is protecting against every strain when it comes to preventing (or reducing significantly the risk of) serious illness. Infection is a different thing, but your body can get infected with loads of things - the immune system handles it. On top of that, you develop booster jabs - which they've said is already the plan - to target the people who need them the most (like we do with the flu jab, every single year). These boosters are developed to target the new strains (Pfizer already think they have managed to get a handle on how to reduce the transmission of the South African variant).

Your second point. I don't really get it? We aren't 'close to beating this thing' at all, until we actually take those steps? We can't beat COVID for good. It's here. It will be here for years. It's going to survive because that's what viruses do.

So, we develop medicines to manage it. We take gradual steps - which is what the roadmap has set out - and, the key is (which I'm not sure I trust the government on but I just have to hope they will do) is that they don't jump the gun and stick to it by any means even if the numbers shoot up. But when we take those steps matters little now the vaccine is out, because the virus will mutate and live on anyway. So even if we waited 6 months, and got every single person fully vaxxed up, the risk of a variant developing is still there.

In 10 days' time, I imagine there'll be a lot more cases. We're going to be testing 2 x a week in secondary schools and colleges across the country - people that were, by and large, not getting tested for the last 2 months, because why would they be, unless they were ill? It shouldn't be a cause for panic unless there is a massive spike - and then we have to hope that they make the right decision.

 

[BlueToff]

Foerget the vaccines, they will always be behind the virus. Itls changes to bahaviour that's the key.

Put a fork in this one. He's done.

'Forget the vaccines'.

Sound, you better get on the phone to every nation in the world, and all those vaccine manufacturers, and tell them to pack it in.

 

[NilSatisOptimum]

You need to look at the science, its clear that the vaccines are the answer.

Everyone wearing masks has had a relatively small impact on preventing deaths. Vaccines are preventing HUGE numbers of deaths.

Vaccines are part of the answer, putting all trust in them is no better than smoker or those silly people on Friday night in more normal times who expects the NHS to look after them at great cost because they have drunk so much alcohol they are clinically ill or smoked themselves to lung cancer.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Like groundhog day in this thread every day lol

 

[JLW]

Vaccines are part of the answer, putting all trust in them is no better than smoker or those silly people on Friday night in more normal times who expects the NHS to look after them at great cost because they have drunk so much alcohol they are clinically ill or smoked themselves to lung cancer.

Are you saying these people shouldn't be treated by the NHS?

 

[grandjoeblue]

Covid is here forever. People need to realise that. A suppression strategy works to a point but its not going to disappear.

Vaccines and reopening has to be the strategy. Vaccines are then altered to suit any current variants. Thats literally the only way forward.

 

[COYBL25]

Anyone who thinks that the majority of the U.K. population are going to wear masks and adhere to social distancing beyond the point where they don’t have to, is living in cloud cuckoo land.

You can bang on all you like about it being the norm in the Far East, but it’s not the norm here.

Add to that, in certain parts of the U.K., the people ( Liverpool being one ) don’t like being told what to do and are naturally anti authoritarian.

You can call them MURDERERS and SERFS all you want, but that won’t change their psyche.

 

[Moomin]

But, and correct me if I'm wrong, but no virus has really ever done that? They have never somehow proved totally immune to the vaccines, because the make up of the virus remains very similar? That's why they're so confident. And then you're adding in that standard vaccine efficacy (for example a flu jab) is about 55-60%. These vaccines are hitting 85-90% after one dose. Also, you have to take into account how many people have covid and don't actually have a) any symptoms or b) anything more mild than a bad head cold. It's not to take away from the seriousness of it, it just shows that in the vast majority of people, their immune systems can fight it off without needing any help at all. So those people having a vaccine on top of that is going to help even more.

Now, that's not to say we don't have to be wary, but so far, every vaccine is protecting against every strain when it comes to preventing (or reducing significantly the risk of) serious illness. Infection is a different thing, but your body can get infected with loads of things - the immune system handles it. On top of that, you develop booster jabs - which they've said is already the plan - to target the people who need them the most (like we do with the flu jab, every single year). These boosters are developed to target the new strains (Pfizer already think they have managed to get a handle on how to reduce the transmission of the South African variant).

Your second point. I don't really get it? We aren't 'close to beating this thing' at all, until we actually take those steps? We can't beat COVID for good. It's here. It will be here for years. It's going to survive because that's what viruses do.

So, we develop medicines to manage it. We take gradual steps - which is what the roadmap has set out - and, the key is (which I'm not sure I trust the government on but I just have to hope they will do) is that they don't jump the gun and stick to it by any means even if the numbers shoot up. But when we take those steps matters little now the vaccine is out, because the virus will mutate and live on anyway. So even if we waited 6 months, and got every single person fully vaxxed up, the risk of a variant developing is still there.

In 10 days' time, I imagine there'll be a lot more cases. We're going to be testing 2 x a week in secondary schools and colleges across the country - people that were, by and large, not getting tested for the last 2 months, because why would they be, unless they were ill? It shouldn't be a cause for panic unless there is a massive spike - and then we have to hope that they make the right decision.

Viruses mutate to survive and spread, the Flu vaccine efficiancy is low because they are guessing on the changes from previous years.