Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[Billy Dean]

with respect, if the Government was doing this after being treated by AZ like this then most people would be in agreement that AZ were at fault. Some people would be “I told you so”-ing, but the drug company would be the one being blamed.

I don’t think it would only be the drug company.

 

[Tubey]

Shoe on the other foot.

If UK had signed a deal with AZ which had so much complete waffle in it (as in, when it comes to the key, crucial promises) and left the UK at risk of something such as this happening, who would posters in here, by and large, blame?

AZ, or the UK government for agreeing such a deal?

That's my general point. But I wholly agree AZ should not have made promises or suggested they could hit targets on a 'best effort' basis, either.

Contractually, the UK have 80% minimum of all AZ production tied to the UK plants.

This actually meant that in December, we only had 4m doses instead of 30m by that time because of issues with UK facilities.

So in hindsight, the UK nailed it, the EU er... didn't. But - and it's a big but - I don't think they nailed it because of contractual wording. If the UK sites had repeated issues, we'd have been up poop creek without a paddle, as we'd have no recourse to the EU facility productions. So that part is luck, and why a "best efforts" clause is a no-brainer with the deal.

No, the reason we nailed it was due to the speed of the acquisition program. Critically, the order was three months earlier, so we had time to sort everything, work out niggles, get ahead of the pack.

 

[davek]

You opting for the Sputnik vaccine then Dave!

I'd take it.

 

[Sy-]

I'd take it.

I read somewhere it was just vodka?

 

[Billy Dean]

Contractually, the UK have 80% minimum of all AZ production tied to the UK plants.

This actually meant that in December, we only had 4m doses instead of 30m by that time because of issues with UK facilities.

So in hindsight, the UK nailed it, the EU er... didn't. But - and it's a big but - I don't think they nailed it because of contractual wording. If the UK sites had repeated issues, we'd have been up poop creek without a paddle, as we'd have no recourse to the EU facility productions. So that part is luck, and why a "best efforts" clause is a no-brainer with the deal.

No, the reason we nailed it was due to the speed of the acquisition program. Critically, the order was three months earlier, so we had time to sort everything, work out niggles, get ahead of the pack.

Has the UK contract been published too now?

 

[davek]

We could all end up living on Dr Moreau island, sometimes think we are, often these days.

The first thought of anyone now, surely, is to acknowledge that this government dont care if they live or die? So any decision they make re vaccines must be seen in that light. They'll roll anything out to deflect from them politically and they wont care about the health consequences. To think any other way is completely naive.

Your government dont care if you live or die; they care about staying in power long enough to make their sponsors and themselves fortunes. That is the grim reality. However, the reaction by many (and sadly many on here) is to act like serfs: parroting the vaccine nationalism BS headlines of the neo-liberal media and actually take great delight in knocking governments of other countries who actually do care about their populations and are discerning enough to be careful in the roll out of their vaccine programme and their acceptance of vaccines.

These people have accepted barbarism.

 

[maccavennie]

I think I'll have the Pfizer in my right leg
The AZ in my left leg
The Moderna in my left arm
The Novavax in my right arm

And for good measure the Johnson and Johnson vaccine can be jabbed into my bum

That should have me well covered for the year

 

[davek]

Make your mind up, its either go with the UK risk of one jab v the no jab by the EU because they are were still deliberating. You can't keep bashing the UK for the amount of deaths then at the same time condemn them for going for the vaccination to stop the deaths.

Because their vaccination programme is against A/ (in the case of Pfizer) the vaccine makers/scientists advice of 2 jabs spaced by 3 weeks, and B/ they are rolling out a vaccine for the elderly that has hardly any data to back up its use amongst that group to stop the virus impacting them, all due to Oxford simply not doing the testing on the elderly that Pfizer/ Moderna etc did. .

 

[davek]

I read somewhere it was just vodka?

But not gnats piss.

 

[BlueToff]

Contractually, the UK have 80% minimum of all AZ production tied to the UK plants.

This actually meant that in December, we only had 4m doses instead of 30m by that time because of issues with UK facilities.

So in hindsight, the UK nailed it, the EU er... didn't. But - and it's a big but - I don't think they nailed it because of contractual wording. If the UK sites had repeated issues, we'd have been up poop creek without a paddle, as we'd have no recourse to the EU facility productions. So that part is luck, and why a "best efforts" clause is a no-brainer with the deal.

No, the reason we nailed it was due to the speed of the acquisition program. Critically, the order was three months earlier, so we had time to sort everything, work out niggles, get ahead of the pack.

Yep, that's a fair point. Thanks for expanding.

The EU Commission had every right to want the vaccine at the same time, I get that. But, that 2-3 months extra is a long time.

Anyway, let's just hope it gets sorted then.

In the meantime, my mate's 33-year-old step mum (think she's had pneumonia recently) is getting offered it, and has declined it. Big post on Facebook (obviously). Me and my mates just taking the p***. Honestly, I despair.

Could stick anything in me if it means I'll be able to go and see my niece or nephew when they're born in July, or go for a bloody pint at some point before 2024.

 

[ForeverBlue92]

Googling ‘Manscaped’

Oh yes

 

[davek]

You constantly make assumptions about me. I don’t even drink. But what I am is honest, so yeah, you’re a better man than me. All I’m continually asking you is why after a mass vaccination programme stringent restrictions and infringement on people’s freedom would be required. And you can’t even answer. Just say you want 0 Covid. By any means necessary.

Caution of course will be required, hold off on a free for all to make sure transmission is reduced and hospitalisations are at very low levels, with deaths hopefully the same. Only an idiot would advocate letting everything go back to normal before we know for certain the vaccines are protecting people to a great enough degree.

And again with the back sack and crack parlours. It’s an absolute fetishistic obsession at this point. You’re such a boomer on this subject. Seriously have you not heard of manscaped? The days of waxing your private parts are long gone.

This is why there’s no point debating this with you. You talk about adapting to a new way of life like it’s your great noble mission. It’s like Covid gave you some purpose and some meaning that was absent. You assume I’m a pie eating alcoholic so I’ll make some assumptions about you. I’m going to hazard a guess and say you’re at least, AT LEAST, 20 years older than me. I’m not going to jump to conclusions, but I imagine your life is pretty set and I imagine your comfortable enough financially. I’m not saying your Richard Branson but I’m guessing you’re set up enough to do better than most people in their mid 20’s who are looking to carve their way and actually make something of their life. It’s pretty easy to “adapt” from the comfort of your own home with money in the bank. I guess my generation will just have to cop for it right?

This holier than thou, messiah complex is tiresome now. Believe it or not I follow the rules as stringently as anyone. I just don’t pretend to enjoy it or want it to continue beyond the point it has to. A point which you seem to want to extend for a long, long period of time.

There's the nub of it. You see what I'm advocating about a change in the way we live (and what will have to happen long term) as "infringements". I see them as necessary adaptations for the common good.

And no matter what coverage the current vaccination programmes give, this virus will mutate for years to come, demanding that the old normal you seek to go back to wont ever become a reality again...which is why it's a breathtaking claim on your part that you are the future and I represent the past in some way - because I'm accepting what's to come while you are looking to get in the time machine and travel back to the summer of 2019.

 

[BlueToff]

with respect, if the Government was doing this after being treated by AZ like this then most people would be in agreement that AZ were at fault. Some people would be “I told you so”-ing, but the drug company would be the one being blamed.

I get that point and as I've said I don't think AZ aren't culpable either. But the EU Commission's decision-making seems to have left a lot to be desired.

Doing what they've done at the Northern Ireland border isn't a good move either. Come on, there's no real defending it. Lives are at stake everywhere. Let's just accept that their insistence on complete control backfired, while also rightly saying that AZ shouldn't have promised a 'best effort' to something they couldn't commit (though at the time - August - I doubt it was clear they wouldn't be able to commit that as the UK plants hadn't been up and running so they didn't know the yield issues).

However, you'd have thought AZ could easily have notified the EU to say 'hey, we've had these problems in the UK, we're thinking that there's a chance this could happen at the EU plants'? Maybe that's me being naive, but surely that wouldn't be out of the realms of possibility to have happened.

 

[BlueToff]

There's the nub of it. You see what I'm advocating about a change in the way we live (and what will have to happen long term) as "infringements". I see them as necessary adaptations for the common good.

And no matter what coverage the current vaccination programmes give, this virus will mutate for years to come, demanding that the old normal you seek to go back to wont ever become a reality again...which is why it's a breathtaking claim on your part that you are the future and I represent the past in some way - because I'm accepting what's to come while you are looking to get in the time machine and travel back to the summer of 2019.

What would be allowed under Chairman Dave?

Are you suggesting...

Travel/vaccine passport type things (I think they'll come into play)?
Consistent testing that everybody has to take part in?
What about events, matches etc? Anything with a crowd?

Or is it things like having a better response in place for if anything like this happens again (but, y'know, it's been 100 years since the last pandemic), or consistent messages about washing hands etc (which will just happen now anyway) or wearing masks in supermarkets or public transport (again, think that's what will happen for a while).

 

[davek]

What would be allowed under Chairman Dave?

Are you suggesting...

Travel/vaccine passport type things (I think they'll come into play)?
Consistent testing that everybody has to take part in?
What about events, matches etc? Anything with a crowd?

Or is it things like having a better response in place for if anything like this happens again (but, y'know, it's been 100 years since the last pandemic), or consistent messages about washing hands etc (which will just happen now anyway) or wearing masks in supermarkets or public transport (again, think that's what will happen for a while).

I would see a late spring / early summer type of movement and activity to become the mode of our lives for the next couple of years if we are serious about using the vaccine to give us a chance of stopping mass death each year. So, no mass gathering for events, a continuation of face mask rules and overall hygene required, social distancing to continue and a trace and track testing policy that really is world class to keep putting fires out where they happen. That requires a different type of government than the one we have, which is as "liberal" as there is. That form of politics has to be binned now.

We can see in the East how societies can manage a pandemic much better than we can. We have a lot to learn from them and I suggest we do so quickly.