Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[DanEFC92]

 

[Billy Dean]

no it isn’t

If you order something with a firm, they tell you when you will get it and then they fail to deliver, it’s the firms fault.

This is not an EU-UK issue; AZ have contracts with both and either they deliver what was agreed and paid for, or they compensate the injured party.

AZ is clearly at fault in all this. They've promised more than they can deliver.

 

[Neiler]

On AZ: there are bound to emerge "niche vaccines" over time. Different groups will fit different types of vaccine based on what they do to the virus (destroy/neutralise; mimic it/offer more from a T-cell angle etc). But what we do know now is that the data just isn't there to support rolling out the AZ vaccine to older people. It may well be ok for them, but (and as the Germans have decided) until such data exists it would be far wiser to vaccinate older groups with Pfizer or Moderna where the data is there in abundance that older groups react as well to the vaccine as younger groups.

Vaccine nationalism: it's a dangerous thing. No only is it purblind in terms of failing to understand the international dimension to ALL vaccine, it is dangerous to become cheerleaders for vaccine that has a lot of work to do to prove their worth, handing nation states the freedom to use their (easily manipulated) regulators to ok its roll out, and can also lead to what we're seeing right now on vaccine: hoarding of stocks...which can pretty soon turn into hoarding of information on how to deal with new challenges a virus can bring.

But some people will parrot the propganda because that's how theylve been programmed all their lives: to see the world through a prism of patriotism.

Daft gets.

The current vaccines will be defunked very shortly and better more efficient ones will come on stream. This year will all be getting something into people and protecting as much as possible and making clinical judgements on risk - like AZ. Covid is going to be our generations ongoing problem. Anyone under 10 wont have an issue going forward and in a generation or two after us it will be like the flu now. But it will be relevant for us for our life time.

The vaccine strategies are interesting Moderna and Pfizer will have a very short shelf life, the fact that both broke both first will have huge reputational acclaim for them and their products away from the vaccine in the future, not to mention share price, but their time of vaccine prevalence is going to be time limited. They are doing Guerilla warfare in a sense, hitting first, hard and fast and pricing very high as they know they have a short shelf life. AZ JJ and other vaccines that are more functional to give at a lower cost is where this is heading. Until eventually everyone will have there one dose standard easily distributed vaccine. Pfizer and Moderna know this and are trying to make as much money as possible in this phase.

Vaccine nationalism is silly in the sense, that zero covid by closing borders is impossible in Europe the way it has been in NZ. If there are cases in Europe there will be cases in the Uk and vice versa, regardless of how many are vaccinated. In a way though and im speaking as someone still in the EU, i hope Britain get most of their vaccines and quickly as a priority for the region in general, if you are picking a country in the region who has had the hardest time with Covid infections and deaths, its the UK. Makes perfect sense really they should be given all priority for me - the need is greater, things haven't been great during the whole period and their has been real suffering.

Goes back to the whole thing about equity and equality being two different things. if it was up to me it wouldn't be about equal share but highest prevalence and impact of the virus on a country in terms of suffering, but maybe that makes to much sense.

 

[degsy]

*sigh*

I criticise national governments on matters dealing with the virus; for not adopting best practice models from around the world, a crtique of nationalism therefore and not support of it.

The vaccines are a global issue. We must all stick together to get this virus under control. Encouraging trade wars as the vaccine nationalists are doing is going to cost even more lives.

Exactly so dave.
Various Countries...some might mention Germany, but I couldn't possibly comment, might decide if there was going to be a shortage, they would try to minimise it in their own Country and if that means some other less prepared or forward thinking ( I hesitate to throw in the stereotypical 'efficent' ) Countries went a bit shorter as consequence...

 

[Cool_Blue]

They aren’t; they want what was ordered (understandably in the circumstances). AZ’s CEO was the one who brought the UK into it (by contrasting the earlier order and contract).

So you are suggesting the EU sue a company who’s scientists have been working their arses off for the last year, but have now run into some supply issues, so therefore decided to fulfil the order for those who had the foresight to order THREE MONTHS before the EU? I’m not sure why they’re so upset tbh, as their German masters clearly think it’s crap.

AZ is clearly at fault in all this. They've promised more than they can deliver.

yes of course they are, let’s shut them down the absolute wasters. Jesus wept.

 

[davek]

The current vaccines will be defunked very shortly and better more efficient ones will come on stream. This year will all be getting something into people and protecting as much as possible and making clinical judgements on risk - like AZ. Covid is going to be our generations ongoing problem. Anyone under 10 wont have an issue going forward and in a generation or two after us it will be like the flu now. But it will be relevant for us for our life time.

The vaccine strategies are interesting Morderna and Pfizer will have a very short shelf life, the fact that both broke both first will have huge reputational acclaim for them and their production the future, not to mention share price. They are doing Guerilla warfare in a sense, hitting first, hard and fast and pricing very high as they know they have a short shelf life. AZ JJ and other vaccines that are more functional to give at a lower cost is where this is heading. Until eventually everyone will have there one dose standard easily distributed vaccine. Pfizer and Moderna know this and are trying to make as much money as possible in this phase.

Vaccine nationalism is silly in the sense, that zero covid by closing borders is impossible in Europe the way it has been in NZ. If there are cases in Europe there will be cases in Uk and vice versa, regardless of how many are vaccinated. In a way though and im speaking as someone still in the EU, i hope Britain get most of their vaccines quickly, if you are picking a country in the region who has had the hardest time with Covid infections and deaths, its the UK. Makes perfect sense really they should be given all priority to me, things haven't been great their comparatively. Goes back to the whole thing about equity and equality being two different things. if it was up to me it wouldn't be about equal share but highest prevalence and impact of the virus on a country, but maybe that makes to much sense.

You're dead right there on the last paragraph. The UK is a locus (has been allowed to become a locus) of the virus and its mutations and should be seeing a mass uptake of the vaccine here. Itls in the interests of Europe tpo make sure the contagion is stopped/capped here.

Your first para: sadly, yes: there will be a need to live with this. That means we need our behaviour completeley re-engineered from an open society to one that becomes used to handling a different mode of living: less movement, more collective action. And one where the state takes greater not less prominence in all our lives, but where international co-operation becomes an existential necessity. And your point on profiteering from the vaccines is noted.

 

[davek]

Exactly so dave.
Various Countries...some might mention Germany, but I couldn't possibly comment, might decide if there was going to be a shortage, they would try to minimise it in their own Country and if that means some other less prepared or forward thinking ( I hesitate to throw in the stereotypical 'efficent' ) Countries went a bit shorter as consequence...

Nationalism is a virus also. All forms of it should be attacked.

 

[Billy Dean]

So you are suggesting the EU sue a company who’s scientists have been working their arses off for the last year, but have now run into some supply issues, so therefore decided to fulfil the order for those who had the foresight to order THREE MONTHS before the EU? I’m not sure why they’re so upset tbh, as their German masters clearly think it’s crap.

yes of course they are, let’s shut them down the absolute wasters. Jesus wept.

I never said anything about shutting them down. Just making the point, they are the ones to blame, not the EU or the UK.

 

[tsubaki]

So you are suggesting the EU sue a company who’s scientists have been working their arses off for the last year, but have now run into some supply issues, so therefore decided to fulfil the order for those who had the foresight to order THREE MONTHS before the EU? I’m not sure why they’re so upset tbh, as their German masters clearly think it’s crap.

If they’ve not delivered what was agreed, absolutely.

Look - if AZ had said that because the EU signed the deal later and that as a result the Q1 delivery would be lower, then they’d be in the right. The EU wouldn’t have a leg to stand on by demanding deliveries above that low figure. The argument that the delay caused this would have merit and logic behind it.

Unfortunately, that isn’t what happened here. The EU were told that they’d be getting 40% of what they thought they’d agreed; there is a suggestion that AZ were sending vaccines made in the EU to the UK as well.

On this basis, they are right to go after AZ. We would be right to go after them too, if they did that to us.

 

[Moomin]

no it isn’t

If you order something with a firm, they tell you when you will get it and then they fail to deliver, it’s the firms fault.

This is not an EU-UK issue; AZ have contracts with both and either they deliver what was agreed and paid for, or they compensate the injured party.

The media are trying to make out it is a EU-UK issue.

It's this weeks dead cat.

 

[degsy]

Nationalism is a virus also. All forms of it should be attacked.

And no vaccine on the horizon for it...much like human nature, or even lack of commonsense

 

[davek]

Well my parents had the AZ jab two weeks ago and they haven’t yet turned into zombies. Will keep GOT posted.

I hope they're on the way to protection. Not interested in zombie-staus.

 

[Cool_Blue]

Nationalism is a virus also. All forms of it should be attacked.

Except in Ireland and Scotland, yes? It’s popular there I hear.

 

[Deckard2049]

You're dead right there on the last paragraph. The UK is a locus (has been allowed to become a locus) of the virus and its mutations and should be seeing a mass uptake of the vaccine here. Itls in the interests of Europe tpo make sure the contagion is stopped/capped here.

Your first para: sadly, yes: there will be a need to live with this. That means we need our behaviour completeley re-engineered from an open society to one that becomes used to handling a different mode of living: less movement, more collective action. And one where the state takes greater not less prominence in all our lives, but where international co-operation becomes an existential necessity. And your point on profiteering from the vaccines is noted.

Here we go. It's never just been about the virus has it?

 

[davek]

And no vaccine on the horizon for it...much like human nature, or even lack of commonsense

Nationalism in not common sense. Common sense in a global pandemic is sharing information and resources internationally.