Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[Neiler]

If this is the "first case" of reinfection (more likely a matter of the original infection laying dormant) then it suggests, given that some people have had this since December last year, that antibodies produced gives a lot longer than 'a few months' immunity.

The evidence does appear to be mounting that we'll see different strains of this virus; less deadly but more infectious in some cases. The autumn/winter flu period will complicate matters though.

Just a layman interpreting recent developments.

Not sure we can draw any conclusions, on long term immunity mate, most research indicates a drop in anti body levels as time has gone on which suggest antibody immunity might not be lasting without a vaccine. That said T Cells are different they are different to antibodies and cells produced by the body to attack a previous virus we have had previously (muscle memory) there is a hope these t cells may provide protection beyond anti bodies, to fight a reinfection, indeed it might be why some people get this virus more profoundly then others. Those two facets are subjective of course based on a number of factors of the severity of the infection initially. A lot is still emerging to draw conclusions on our natural response to this. If i had he virus i wouldn't be going around thinking i was immune.

The nature of virus's is they mutate to stay alive so its highly likely, in fact i think different strains have already been identified, there is every possibility it can become more virilant but also more benign - essentially a virus that kills is a useless virus, because the virus primary objective is to stay alive and spread. Beyond that then we are seeing a decrease i think certainly in the death rate around the world, certainly in developed countries, that might be due to a number of factors, better knowledge, environmental measures but also i think better treatment then we had in March-May giving a better chance of recovery for those who are critical, dex (steroid) was a great breakthrough in my opinion, with new research and treatments emerging all the time, we are getting better at treating this.

 

[Cool_Blue]

The EU is issuing bonds and then loaning the money to individual states.

Bonds guaranteed by who?

 

[davek]

Not sure we can draw any conclusions, on long term immunity mate, most research indicates a drop in anti body levels as time has gone on which suggest antibody immunity might not be lasting without a vaccine. That said T Cells are different they are different to antibodies and cells produced by the body to attack a previous virus we have had previously (muscle memory) there is a hope these t cells may provide protection beyond anti bodies, to fight a reinfection, indeed it might be why some people get this virus more profoundly then others. Those two facets are subjective of course based on a number of factors of the severity of the infection initially. A lot is still emerging to draw conclusions on our natural response to this. If i had he virus i wouldn't be going around think i was immune.

The nature of virus's is they mutate to stay alive so its highly likely, in fact i think different strains have already been identified, there is every possibility it can become more virilant but also more benign - essentially a virus that kills is a useless virus, because the virus primary objective is to stay alive and spread. Beyond that then we are seeing a decrease i think certainly in the death rate around the world, certainly in developing countries, that might be due to a number of factors, better knowledge, environmental measures but also i think better treatment then we had in March-May giving a better chance of recovery for those who are critical, dex (steroid) was a great breakthrough in my opinion, with new research and treatments emerging all the time, we are getting better at treating this.

Completely agree with that second paragraph. That does seem to be the way of virus's that they weaken to become more infectious and survive (but can become more aggressive in some strains). I'd really like to read something informative - in layman's terms - about the Hong Kong and Asian flu virus's of the 50s and 60s along those lines (obvioulsy Covid19 is not the flu, but just the cycle of the breakout) and how they peaked and ebbed away.

As for T-cells: a lot of reports from the developing world suggest TB vaccinations have helped create the cellular conditions to repel Covid19. Would you place any credence on that?

 

[Neiler]

Completely agree with that second paragraph. That does seem to be the way of virus's that they weaken to become more infectious and survive (but can become more aggressive in some strains). I'd really like to read something informative - in layman's terms - about the Hong Kong and Asian flu virus's of the 50s and 60s along those lines (obvioulsy Covid19 is not the flu, but just the cycle of the breakout) and how they peaked and ebbed away.

As for T-cells: a lot of reports from the developing world suggest TB vaccinations have helped create the cellular conditions to repel Covid19. Would you place any credence on that?

I think there is strong research to suggest that TB vaccine's and other vaccines make the immune system more alert and thus better able to fight disease generally mate, there have been a lot of studies to show that countries who have had the vaccine Vs countries who dont do as mandatory, sometimes heave better and worse outcomes to virus's generally numerically across most heath care metrics. Not the panacea, but youd rather have it then not.

 

[Hickson9]

Bonds guaranteed by who?

The European Union. It is likely to be triple-A rated as well.

The European Commission is empowered by the EU Treaty to borrow from international capital markets on behalf of the EU.

 

[davek]

I think there is strong research to suggest that TB vaccine's and other vaccines make the immune system more alert and thus better able to fight disease generally mate, there have been a lot of studies to show that countries who have had the vaccine Vs countries who dont do as mandatory, sometimes heave better and worse outcomes to virus's generally numerically across most heath care metrics. Not the panacea, but youd rather have it then not.

Is TB vaccination a liflong vaccine? I know in the UK it was discontinued in the 80s/90s (different for Ireland?)

 

[Neiler]

Is TB vaccination a liflong vaccine? I know in the UK it was discontinued in the 80s/90s (different for Ireland?)

It depends on the vaccine mate, the BCG is probably the most prominent in western Euorpe and is given in childhood, it offers protection for up 20 years, its generally not given to adults as its less effective in adult hood, ive known it given to people working in the area of TB though.

You get in infancy, then a booster in primary school over here, then i think you get a booster shot before you hit 18 in secondary school. There is evidence of different health care outcomes based on countries approach to vaccination in general, for example i think Italy and USA dont to anything like the BCG.

That said if you imagine a vaccine effectiveness of 20 years, that is likely to be inclusive of a young cohort if they received it in infancy or school going age, were the vaccine is most effective in people from say 18 -38. We know the older you are the more covid will impact, so you can draw a conclusion that the vaccine may offer protection, but the vaccine offers the most protection to those who are younger - chicken and egg. Thus hard to draw a conclusion.

 

[spectateur]

Or basic manners. Never been as I have no desire to see big greasy meffs with food all over their faces sucking on their hands.
Chicken on the bone and ribs should be banned from public eating

I agree with you entirely. I hate to see people licking their hands and fingers.
Apart from the Americans most cultures that eat with their fingers provide bowls or cloths for their greasy mitts.

 

[davek]

It depends on the vaccine mate, the BCG is probably the most prominent in western Euorpe and is given in childhood, it offers protection for up 20 years, its generally not given to adults as its less effective in adult hood, ive known it given to people working in the area of TB though.

You get in infancy, then a booster in primary school over here, then i think you get a booster shot before you hit 18 in secondary school. There is evidence of different health care outcomes based on countries approach to vaccination in general, for example i think Italy and USA dont to anything like the BCG.

That said if you imagine a vaccine effectiveness of 20 years, that is likely to be inclusive of a young cohort if they received it in infancy or school going age, were the vaccine is most effective in people from say 18 -38. We know the older you are the more covid will impact, so you can draw a conclusion that the vaccine may offer protection, but the vaccine offers the most protection to those who are younger - chicken and egg. Thus hard to draw a conclusion.

Thanks mate. Good explanation.

 

[Cool_Blue]

The European Union. It is likely to be triple-A rated as well.

The European Commission is empowered by the EU Treaty to borrow from international capital markets on behalf of the EU.

And the EU is made up of what? The European countries that are borrowing the money?

“international capital markets”
This ‘borrowing’ thing is a question that I’ve often wondered about. When you hear on the news the UK national debt is now £500,000 gazillion, owed to whom exactly? Is everyone borrowing from each other?

 

[roydo]

And the EU is made up of what? The European countries that are borrowing the money?

“international capital markets”
This ‘borrowing’ thing is a question that I’ve often wondered about. When you hear on the news the UK national debt is now £500,000 gazillion, owed to whom exactly? Is everyone borrowing from each other?

Pretty much. An ever rotating picture of borrowing and repaying each other.

That feeds into the secondary market of buying and selling the debts from each other. Thats what the Bond Market is, and there is a pretty high chance you own some of it.

 

[arminisgod]

If this is the "first case" of reinfection (more likely a matter of the original infection laying dormant) then it suggests, given that some people have had this since December last year, that antibodies produced gives a lot longer than 'a few months' immunity.

The evidence does appear to be mounting that we'll see different strains of this virus; less deadly but more infectious in some cases. The autumn/winter flu period will complicate matters though.

Just a layman interpreting recent developments.

looks like good old fashioned immunity to me. Infected 1st time and was ill, recovered caught again but not ill this time.

Good news

 

[Catfish Blues]

If this is the "first case" of reinfection (more likely a matter of the original infection laying dormant) then it suggests, given that some people have had this since December last year, that antibodies produced gives a lot longer than 'a few months' immunity.

The evidence does appear to be mounting that we'll see different strains of this virus; less deadly but more infectious in some cases. The autumn/winter flu period will complicate matters though.

Just a layman interpreting recent developments.

Highly unlikely to be dormant mate. The infections, genetically, are different so they've almost certainly had two infections.

However, out of, literally millions of infections, this is the first true second infection I've heard of. If reinfections were common, or become common, then it's something to be concerned about. But many viruses have, in a tiny minority of people, the ability to reinfect people, so it'd be more of a surprise to not see the odd one cropping up.

I havn't read the detail, but it'd be interesting to know if this person had antibodies from the first infection or not.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Radio 4 must have scoured high and low for the whiniest bunch of people they could find to call in about school's reopening over lunch. There's a fundamental lack of resilience, and then there were this mob.

 

[Hickson9]

And the EU is made up of what? The European countries that are borrowing the money?

“international capital markets”
This ‘borrowing’ thing is a question that I’ve often wondered about. When you hear on the news the UK national debt is now £500,000 gazillion, owed to whom exactly? Is everyone borrowing from each other?

UK national debt is mostly owned domestically. The Bank of England, pension funds, private commercial banks, insurance companies, building societies etc.

Anyway, the point is that the EU, acting as one, can borrow very cheaply (lower yields) to sustain citizens on furlough.

The UK can choose to do something similar. It is a balance of the impact of rising unemployment in the Autumn, during the resulting market correction as some businesses fail/collapse/reduce workforce, against the risk of higher debt and interest repayments.