Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

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Prevenger17 said:
Might actually have you confused with someone else there tbf. I thought you were one of the daily "when are we opening again?“ brigade, but you have posted too much to vault and I'm not arsed picking through it. You're in the centre, whatever that means
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I've said from the start that this pandemic has created two crisis, a health one and a financial one, and that people will be affected by the crisis in different ways, physically, mentally, financially or a mixture of all 3. I try and respect that and try not to judge other people's behaviours, on both sides of the argument, when in reality I have no idea what they are going through to drive those behaviours. That's one example of me taking the middle ground.

Also, as regards opening lock down, I understand that we need to do so from an economics aspect, (and I worked in the finance industry for nearly 40 years so if i do have an area of so called expertise that would be it), but we also need to do so as safely as possible so as not to create a second spike. Personally I'd have preferred the infection rate to be lower and a TTI system more advanced before the latest steps were taken, and I think the government have now crossed that line whereby they are giving priority to the economy. But again, I'm not against opening up but neither am I making calls for opening up at all costs. So another example of taking the middle ground.

Also, I'm not a person who has any fixed political persuasion and have tried to view the governments performance in this crisis with some perspective. I have been critical of them, particularly as regards lack of leadership and poor communications and decision making, but have tried to balance this with the fact that they have had poor medical and scientific advice to work with, plus an inefficient and overly bureaucratic fixed civil service and health system. So another, what I would call, unbiased middle view.

You are correct in one thing. I am a prolific poster in this thread although I'm sure you will be doing a few others a disservice by claiming I'm the threads biggest contributor. But I've posted on many aspects of this virus and I dispute your comments that the majority of my posts come from pretty much the same angle.
 
Barnfred 55 said:
I've said from the start that this pandemic has created two crisis, a health one and a financial one, and that people will be affected by the crisis in different ways, physically, mentally, financially or a mixture of all 3. I try and respect that and try not to judge other people's behaviours, on both sides of the argument, when in reality I have no idea what they are going through to drive those behaviours. That's one example of me taking the middle ground.

Also, as regards opening lock down, I understand that we need to do so from an economics aspect, (and I worked in the finance industry for nearly 40 years so if i do have an area of so called expertise that would be it), but we also need to do so as safely as possible so as not to create a second spike. Personally I'd have preferred the infection rate to be lower and a TTI system more advanced before the latest steps were taken, and I think the government have now crossed that line whereby they are giving priority to the economy. But again, I'm not against opening up but neither am I making calls for opening up at all costs. So another example of taking the middle ground.

Also, I'm not a person who has any fixed political persuasion and have tried to view the governments performance in this crisis with some perspective. I have been critical of them, particularly as regards lack of leadership and poor communications and decision making, but have tried to balance this with the fact that they have had poor medical and scientific advice to work with, plus an inefficient and overly bureaucratic fixed civil service and health system. So another, what I would call, unbiased middle view.

You are correct in one thing. I am a prolific poster in this thread although I'm sure you will be doing a few others a disservice by claiming I'm the threads biggest contributor. But I've posted on many aspects of this virus and I dispute your comments that the majority of my posts come from pretty much the same angle.
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Just to clarify things.

Which camp are you in :

SCUM
DEATH
MURDERERS.

Your cooperation in this matter is much appreciated.
 
Barnfred 55 said:
Also, I'm not a person who has any fixed political persuasion and have tried to view the governments performance in this crisis with some perspective. I have been critical of them, particularly as regards lack of leadership and poor communications and decision making, but have tried to balance this with the fact that they have had poor medical and scientific advice to work with, plus an inefficient and overly bureaucratic fixed civil service and health system. So another, what I would call, unbiased middle view.

You are correct in one thing. I am a prolific poster in this thread although I'm sure you will be doing a few others a disservice by claiming I'm the threads biggest contributor. But I've posted on many aspects of this virus and I dispute your comments that the majority of my posts come from pretty much the same angle.
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They had the examples of other nations for three menths to draw upon and act upon, and the advice of the WHO on locking down and tracing and testing.

As for a health system not fit for purpose, who ran that down then?

Unreal.
 
Barnfred 55 said:
I've said from the start that this pandemic has created two crisis, a health one and a financial one, and that people will be affected by the crisis in different ways, physically, mentally, financially or a mixture of all 3. I try and respect that and try not to judge other people's behaviours, on both sides of the argument, when in reality I have no idea what they are going through to drive those behaviours. That's one example of me taking the middle ground.

Also, as regards opening lock down, I understand that we need to do so from an economics aspect, (and I worked in the finance industry for nearly 40 years so if i do have an area of so called expertise that would be it), but we also need to do so as safely as possible so as not to create a second spike. Personally I'd have preferred the infection rate to be lower and a TTI system more advanced before the latest steps were taken, and I think the government have now crossed that line whereby they are giving priority to the economy. But again, I'm not against opening up but neither am I making calls for opening up at all costs. So another example of taking the middle ground.

Also, I'm not a person who has any fixed political persuasion and have tried to view the governments performance in this crisis with some perspective. I have been critical of them, particularly as regards lack of leadership and poor communications and decision making, but have tried to balance this with the fact that they have had poor medical and scientific advice to work with, plus an inefficient and overly bureaucratic fixed civil service and health system. So another, what I would call, unbiased middle view.

You are correct in one thing. I am a prolific poster in this thread although I'm sure you will be doing a few others a disservice by claiming I'm the threads biggest contributor. But I've posted on many aspects of this virus and I dispute your comments that the majority of my posts come from pretty much the same angle.
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Now? Government focus on the short term protection of some elements of the economy caused the virus to be endemic and such an economic disaster.
 
There's some debate among the German regions and the national government about mask wearing. Some of the northern regions want to to end compulsory mask wearing in shops and public transport because they don't have many cases. The rest of the regions and the government saying that's a bit of a stupid idea essentially.
 
davek said:
They had the examples of other nations for three menths to draw upon and act upon, and the advice of the WHO on locking down and tracing and testing.

As for a health system not fit for purpose, who ran that down then?

Unreal.
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Health system unfit for purpose? UK also has an economic system unfit for purpose. Far too dependent on people buying things with borrowed money that they could well do without.
Need to get back to creating proper wealth by making things.
 
davek said:
As for a health system not fit for purpose, who ran that down then?
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The Tories obviously. But that isn't what I was getting at. The NHS front line, as undermanned and under resourced as they are, have performed fantastically during this pandemic.

My issue is that the NHS, as an organisation, is monolithic and that has developed over decades of rule under both Labour and the Tories. It has some brilliant aspects to it, but it also has many faults, such as it's structure, it's poor systems and complete lack of quality IT. In England alone I think there are over 200 Health Trusts, each with half a dozen or more senior executives earning anything between £250kpa and £500kpa depending on where they are. These are invariably medical people. Compare them with a consultants salary of about £80k.

I have many friends and family who work within the NHS and not one of them is complimentary of the hierarchal and bureaucratic structure. Same with the civil service which is on the whole very opposed to change.

The truth is, a different government with a very different political mantra in dealing with this virus, would still have had to rely on the same monolithic permanent government departments and senior scientific and health advisors.
 
Billy Dean said:
There's some debate among the German regions and the national government about mask wearing. Some of the northern regions want to to end compulsory mask wearing in shops and public transport because they don't have many cases. The rest of the regions and the government saying that's a bit of a stupid idea essentially.
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There should be no debate at all. Virus is spread predominantly by droplets in the breath of a contaminated person.
Face coverings reduce the spread of these particles by upto 90%.many carriers are asymptotic.
Masks should be mandatory in all indoor and enclosed spaces.
 
Barnfred 55 said:
The Tories obviously. But that isn't what I was getting at. The NHS front line, as undermanned and under resourced as they are, have performed fantastically during this pandemic.

My issue is that the NHS, as an organisation, is monolithic and that has developed over decades of rule under both Labour and the Tories. It has some brilliant aspects to it, but it also has many faults, such as it's structure, it's poor systems and complete lack of quality IT. In England alone I think there are over 200 Health Trusts, each with half a dozen or more senior executives earning anything between £250kpa and £500kpa depending on where they are. These are invariably medical people. Compare them with a consultants salary of about £80k.

I have many friends and family who work within the NHS and not one of them is complimentary of the hierarchal and bureaucratic structure. Same with the civil service which is on the whole very opposed to change.

The truth is, a different government with a very different political mantra in dealing with this virus, would still have had to rely on the same monolithic permanent government departments and senior scientific and health advisors.
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I think you'd find it a challenge to find any country's civil service that isn't bureaucratic. Public institutions kind of have to be TBF.
 
spectateur said:
There should be no debate at all. Virus is spread predominantly by droplets in the breath of a contaminated person.
Face coverings reduce the spread of these particles by upto 90%.many carriers are asymptotic.
Masks should be mandatory in all indoor and enclosed spaces.
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Very much so. It kind of beggars belief that it's even being debated after everything that's happened. I follow my region's Facebook page and whenever they make an announcement you get people commenting underneath like "STOP MAKING US WEAR MASKS!!" and stuff like that. I mean is it really such a chore to stick one on when you're in a shop?
 
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