Current Affairs Coronavirus Politics Thread

[Harryflashman]

This perfectly sums up why this has p’d me off so much. If I saw this guy right now, I would seriously leather him.

Don’t let him cough on you though

 

[Walken]

they genuinely think the population is stupid but sadly I think much of the recent evidence at least in part supports that position.

The big problem with that kind of deceit is it undermines everything , people will simply start to ignore valuable and vital messages from those in authority . The truth really does matter , never more so than at times Like this .

exactly, I've been banging this drum for a while but if ever there was a time for clarity and honesty then this is it. Unfortunately the cummings tory party has lived by lying and misinformation and they clearly don't know how to behave any other way. You would given the severity of the crisis that this time the press won't make it so easy for them.

Also note the alarming lack of talent on the front bench, the ones that haven't hid have been appalling and lack any sort of authority. Only Sunak has presented himself in a manner that gives the impression he is actively looking for solutions.

 

[summerisle]

He is a liar.

Lying, dissembling, git.

 

[Kenshin]

Lying, dissembling, git.

There isn't anything wrong with herd immunity approach if you want to eradicate a virus in a large population.

Using that approach is accepting there will be deaths and having a strong stance and will to accept that and lead a country through that. It isn't popular sure but it works.

The problem being (politically , so related to the thread) that this approach was never backed. Going from one to another has meant more people become at risk . The numbers who may die haven't changed to a great extent but they are more deaths in a preventive scenario now. If you lock the country down then you do do to minimise the death rates. So by choosing to follow herd immunity and switch it within 2 weeks has exposed more people and as such, pushed the potential deaths more akin to the herd approach.

Not many people will point this out in current circumstances but it should have been a strong stance on either from the get go given there was actual evidence to numbers prior to it spreading here.

Boris backing herd immunity this whole time may have received backlash in the short run but would have been seen as effective in completely killing the risk long term. We would have been one of the quickest to deal with it and be able to go back to normal. It's that uncertainty clearly coming from multiple sources that has escalated things now.

Similarly if we had gone straight to lockdown then it would have prevented more deaths and although lasted longer , less people would have lost a loved one.

 

[Amw79]

There isn't anything wrong with herd immunity approach if you want to eradicate a virus in a large population.

Using that approach is accepting there will be deaths and having a strong stance and will to accept that and lead a country through that. It isn't popular sure but it works.

The problem being (politically , so related to the thread) that this approach was never backed. Going from one to another has meant more people become at risk . The numbers who may die haven't changed to a great extent but they are more deaths in a preventive scenario now. If you lock the country down then you do do to minimise the death rates. So by choosing to follow herd immunity and switch it within 2 weeks has exposed more people and as such, pushed the potential deaths more akin to the herd approach.

Not many people will point this out in current circumstances but it should have been a strong stance on either from the get go given there was actual evidence to numbers prior to it spreading here.

Boris backing herd immunity this whole time may have received backlash in the short run but would have been seen as effective in completely killing the risk long term. We would have been one of the quickest to deal with it and be able to go back to normal. It's that uncertainty clearly coming from multiple sources that has escalated things now.

Similarly if we had gone straight to lockdown then it would have prevented more deaths and although lasted longer , less people would have lost a loved one.

Think the point here is less about the pros and cons of herd immunity as a strategy, and more that the man in charge of the NHS is now openly lying to the public.

 

[Kenshin]

Think the point here is less about the pros and cons of herd immunity as a strategy, and more that the man in charge of the NHS is now openly lying to the public.

Yeah it ties into what I was saying.

They have changed approach and now trying to pretend they haven't. It's weak leadership not to put their weight behind one or the other. For the reasons I gave

 

[mahermi1]

Lying, dissembling, git.

brilliant that mate, will look fitting on the political deathbed of his career. Got to say it about Gary Neville he absolutely nails it there. For those now saying they never said "herd immunity" there you go. Shame you can not sticky that to keep for when/ if, it's all over. To remind people during the fallout.

 

[peteblue]

It’s the few posters here who lined up to say what a good idea herd immunity was that are the true victims this morning.

I don’t believe anyone on here has ever said what a good idea herd immunity was. Both myself and @Bruce Wayne commented at the time that it appeared to make scientific sense and that we needed to follow Medical and Scientific Advice. Personally I still have an open mind on the subject, as it was a new concept to me, and I keep a sharp eye on what is happening in Sweden in order to compare...

 

[tsubaki]

I don’t believe anyone on here has ever said what a good idea herd immunity was. Both myself and @Bruce Wayne commented at the time that it appeared to make scientific sense and that we needed to follow Medical and Scientific Advice. Personally I still have an open mind on the subject, as it was a new concept to me, and I keep a sharp eye on what is happening in Sweden in order to compare...

so you agree it was the policy?

 

[peteblue]

so you agree it was the policy?

At the time, it was said that they didn’t want to lock down too early, so obviously lock down was part of the policy, but yes I do believe that they wanted a degree of herd immunity to take effect. But I believe they wanted a phased approach utilising both approaches, before that Imperial College report and the Media spooked them into jumping to phase 2....

 

[Bruce Wayne]

I don’t believe anyone on here has ever said what a good idea herd immunity was. Both myself and @Bruce Wayne commented at the time that it appeared to make scientific sense and that we needed to follow Medical and Scientific Advice. Personally I still have an open mind on the subject, as it was a new concept to me, and I keep a sharp eye on what is happening in Sweden in order to compare...

It's hard to see an alternative tbh. I mean we've spent years talking about the effect poverty has on health and wellbeing, so you would imagine running the economy into the ground isn't a desirable strategy, so there will come a point when countries open up again, and around we go. Either we shut the economy down until such point as a vaccine is disseminated, or we try and get a degree of herd immunity. Those appear (to my layman's eyes) to be the strategies we have at the moment.

I have little real interest in political to'ing and fro'ing at the moment though. More important to ensure family and friends are as safe as possible, both here and abroad, and that I continue being able to provide for my family as much as possible. Those things are stressful enough, without getting wound up about whether Johnson is a turd or not.

 

[tsubaki]

At the time, it was said that they didn’t want to lock down too early, so obviously lock down was part of the policy, but yes I do believe that they wanted a degree of herd immunity to take effect. But I believe they wanted a phased approach utilising both approaches, before that Imperial College report and the Media spooked them into jumping to phase 2....

thanks, glad we agree that it was

 

[Harryflashman]

At the time, it was said that they didn’t want to lock down too early, so obviously lock down was part of the policy, but yes I do believe that they wanted a degree of herd immunity to take effect. But I believe they wanted a phased approach utilising both approaches, before that Imperial College report and the Media spooked them into jumping to phase 2....

I think it’s glaringly obvious and that’s why the blatant lying that’s now going on Is so insulting and frankly so potentially damaging . We need the truth from our politicians at times like this or what’s the point

 

[peteblue]

I think it’s glaringly obvious and that’s why the blatant lying that’s now going on Is so insulting and frankly so potentially damaging . We need the truth from our politicians at times like this or what’s the point

Totally agree, a bit of open candour goes a long way.....

 

[mahermi1]

It's hard to see an alternative tbh. I mean we've spent years talking about the effect poverty has on health and wellbeing, so you would imagine running the economy into the ground isn't a desirable strategy, so there will come a point when countries open up again, and around we go. Either we shut the economy down until such point as a vaccine is disseminated, or we try and get a degree of herd immunity. Those appear (to my layman's eyes) to be the strategies we have at the moment.

I have little real interest in political to'ing and fro'ing at the moment though. More important to ensure family and friends are as safe as possible, both here and abroad, and that I continue being able to provide for my family as much as possible. Those things are stressful enough, without getting wound up about whether Johnson is a turd or not.

Not an expert here Bruce or pulling down your statement, but isn't herd immunity only used it there is a vaccine ? Just repeating what ive heard on here really, but don't think it's been answered adequately.